Are atheists fools as the Bible would have us believe? What do you believe?
Guest: AnJo (79 days ago)
i donīt get it. Why do you even discuss it? Every side will stick to their point anyway. There are a lot of intelligent religious people who assume their was a creator who gave up control over the world when he gave people their free will. There are crazy atheists telling us the ancient gods were aliens like in stargate. :P I think everybody has to make up his own mind.And i KNOW that you canīt convince some1 that everything he has believed in for 20-30 years is wrong. :)
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Guest: Shaun (337 days ago)
These are very intelligent people but they are 'fools' in the sense that the evidence of a Creator is right in front of them but they fail to recognize it. If it takes so much intelligence to simply discover all these amazing things, isn't it logical to assume there must have been an intelligence which brought all these things into existence in the first place?! These discoveries didn't pop into existence at the moment these people discovered them, they have been there waiting to be discovered because a greater intelligence both conceived and created them. You are a fool if you think such things can come about without intelligence.
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Guest: Richard (731 days ago)
I see religious belief myself as being rather dishonest. It thrives in willful ignorance of demonstrable facts, it does nothing to further our collective understanding of the universe, it is maladaptive to the continued survival of our species. I think that education is the key to a sustainable future. Reality is far more mind-blowingly facinating than bronze age mythology.
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Guest: Annalie Smith (771 days ago)
Believe what you want if you will. Believe a book that was written 300 years after certain 'incidents' took place. A book that rejected versions of stories that didn't represent a certain view. A book that has caused innumerable wars, innumerable deaths. Without religion the people of 9/11 and 7/7 would not have died. Neither would the people of the crusades, or the victims of the holocaust. People are not inherently bad, religion gives people false beliefs, outlets to vent anger, frustration, dissapointment. Why do people still believe so vehemently in religious dogma. Articles that were written hundreds of years ago. We don't still believe other articles from then, why the Bible and the Qu'ran (koran) etc etc?!!? Do you seriously believe in some man, or spirit, or whatever, sitting in the sky watching over your every move??!?! Think about it for a second, logically, rationally. How can you base your life around that belief?! It baffles me it really does. And do you know the funny thing.... I used to be religious. Roman Catholic to the core, so I understand the idea of faith, I really do. It's just I have faith in something plausible. Quoting the fantastic Mr Richard Dawkins 'when it comes to Thor, Zeus, Poseidon, Pan, Osiris, we are all atheists.' No one believes in them! Why is that?! How come they are ridiculed but 'our' 'God' isn't, 'Allah' isn't?!?! They are from the same mold. No I'm not questioning peoples' intelligence for believing. It's not a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of awareness. Can you really have fun in life if you are constantly worrying about hell and sins. Err no. Everyone sins. Every day. EVERYONE. For all you creationists/ fundamentalists out there, who believe the Bible word for word, what the f*** were dinosaurs?!?! Did 'God' just put fossils around for a laugh or something?!!?!? I have been religious and I have religious friends, I understand the safety, the reassurance. But I think it's time for people to discard their blankies that have taken the form of faith and get on with life. If religious people are so great (as I have been told many times) then how come so many of the church clergymen are 'bad'?! Pedophile priests is one example. Another is numerous popes ignoring religious dogma and siring children. And don't say ooo well yes there are some bad apples, coz I thought that was the whole point, they are innately good. Doing God's work on earth. Is that abusing children and breaking oaths!!!! You can achieve meaning in life without having a god. Enjoy the good times, learn from the bad. Try and ignore the people who think they know. Don't believe everything you are told. And by all means read Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion, and learn from the master. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, that was not my intention. As I said you are free to believe what you will. I'm just expressing my opinion, as I'm sure you have yours to express too.
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Guest: Doomsday (788 days ago)
God can't exist if he allows this page to be full of so many long comments. The sooner the Rapture happens the better.
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Guest: Statistics (788 days ago)
Though I am certainly a firm skeptic about statistics, "the Bible was correct about marraige" has his or her math mixed up. The statistic says that 21% of athiests get divorced while 27% of Christians get divorced. You cannot then multiply the amount without representing a different figure (which you should then name as such). I appreciate skepticism about these things, but that particular bit of math is based on a spurious premise. It is more likely that the statistic is closely related to education. Educated individuals are both less likely to get a divorce and less likely to believe in God. I certainly don't mean to disparage faith. I say this from the bottom of my heart: If faith brings you meaning then celebrate it.
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Guest: Witness to God (799 days ago)
Well Mr Mardell has made some points. But you must remember, during the mediaeval times, there was a HUGE amount of distorted Christianity, people thought they could "buy" salvation on the streets, and the priests tried to falsely teach them the Bible as well, to abide by the Catholic's rules. The Bible WAS the authority as God said, but the Catholic church had some "beliefs" that the Bible disagreed with, they weren't willing to change their ways for God, so as a result that's why no one could read. Because if they could have read for themselves, they would have been able to see how false the Catholic church's rules were compared to the Bible. Bibles were also in a different language (by government) then those who could read couldn't understand. Also in those times, they had someone as a preacher in the church speak a different language to them and they had to rely on a translator to tell them what the pastor said. That's the reason they couldn't read, the Catholic Pope (like the president) and government didn't want them to. Martin Luther changed all that eventually.
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Guest: The Bible was correct about marrige. (801 days ago)
Also there's something I noticed about divorce in the clip. That Christians are at a 27% chance of divorce and atheists are at a 21% chance. it also speaks of how atheists make up only 10% of the population in the USA and how Christians make up 75%. Think about it, the 21% goes for about 10% of atheists. And the 27% goes for 75% of the u.s.a's christians. So if "Zach" would have done his homework correctly, and took only 10% percent of the country's Christians, then there would only be a 13% chance of divorce for Christians (I did my home-work). And still a 21% chance for the atheist. Ha.
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Guest: By the grace of God, not a fool (802 days ago)
Sometimes people can get so educated and so far into complicated sciences and things of those concerns, that they forget how all of this world came about. As the human body functions, for example, the cell constructing everything, and all of the organs, blood, parts, and masses of the body, all working together perfectly to help you maintain life. I doubt seriously that this is all the result of random "chance". And even if you think that cells made us, what do you propose made the cells? Atheism isn't the result of lack of knowledge and know-how. It's the result of lack of knowing what is going on around us. Of who designed the body and everything else to work so perfect as it does. If you go to church, you could see how genuine God's grace truly is. In the Pentecost, how people can rapidly speak in different languages and not know what they say, but bilingual poeple can actualy visit from other countries and understand them. How could this be made-up? I will not insult any one who does not believe in God, it is an evil act to do so, for it creates so much more spite in people. I say to you all, peace, and to all atheists, try church. See how everyone rejoices and in certain one's speak in other languages that they don't even understand themselves, please. And please don't insult, for you will not be insulted if you don't insult. If you hate your brother, Christians, then you have not the love of God in your heart. This is in the Bible (I know you know). Amen...
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Guest: Garrett Arb (802 days ago)
But doesn't it also talk in the Bible about people who became so educated, they themselves became fools? Maybe it doesn't mean a fool as in lack of education, maybe it means something different? (Strong Christian)
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Guest: Mr Mardell (802 days ago)
I once read a quote in a book long ago, yet it still remains in my head, "We feel it neccessary to believe in a man who called himself Jesus 2000 years ago. How come then that there are possibly hundreds upon thousands of mentally ill people worldwide claiming that they are Jesus?" Unfortunately I don't know who said this, yet it is a valid point. Back in history of early England, long, long ago, around pre-medieval times, priests were the only ones who knew how to read or write. This could explain that because the parishioners were illiterate, they would believe anything that they are told to believe because the "fear of god" (as told by the priests) would keep them in line. This meant that psychologically, these people were constantly afraid of another "being" that they could not see or touch. You could parallel this with the upbringing of a small child, where the child is taught what to think by their parents because the parents are their role-models. Is this not true of people nowadays? This is all objective. It is all fact. The only parts that are subjective is the possible explanations for why people think this way today. However, you cannot argue with facts. To continue from where Wing Zero was going with his "church cover up" theory, there is an element of truth to this. When Copernicus discovered that all planets revolved around the Sun and then Galileo further backed this up, the Catholic church placed Galileo under house arrest. Why? was there something there that the church had laid down as a foundation of religion, yet restricted the spreading of this discovery to an absolute minimum? Discuss. Mr Robertson, I admire your steadfastness and unwillingness to back down. However, I find your rebuttles to other people's views rather patronising and mocking. Your constant referrals to 20th century history is merely a response in the form of, to put it lightly, "yes you may say that but this man did this and that dictator did that". Who knows what they were thinking of at the time? We can only speculate.
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Guest: pete (802 days ago)
I really don't care what you believe in. Just don't make others suffer because of it. Otherwise no matter which god or force: you'll be fu*ked at some point.
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Guest: Ossiander (806 days ago)
Mr. Robertson, your eloquence and sophomoric abilities are astounding. Fortunately, those abilities do not create a valid argument. You name infamous dictators of the 20th Century as examples of atheists starting wars. You also "excuse" the Church, which I can only assume means the Roman Catholic Church (of which I am a member). While pointing to supposed atheist dictators and excusing religious ones in the face of war, you create an implication that the wars and genocide are acts of evil only under atheist dictators. However, there are clear examples of Christian/religious acts of evil. The American extermination of Native Americans was done under "Christian" presidents and congressmen, claiming that God gave them the right to expand into Indian territory, to renege on treaties, to rape and murder. The Crusades to take back the Holy Land were directed and carried out by Christians claiming to have been ordained by God. The Reformation led to more than 100 years of religious genocide in Europe committed by all sides. Pope Pius XII, of World War II, refused to condemn Hitler's Final Solution to the Jewish Question. Even though the Church did squirrel away 600,000 Jews without Vatican support, think of how many would have been saved with Vatican support. The Christian nations of Europe embarked on conquests in Africa, North America and South America. In those conquests Africans were enslaved, American tribes were decimated by war, disease, and the purposeful destruction of their civilizations. The world is unable to quantify the number of those non-Christians killed in the expansion of Christianity. "[I]f you examine history you will find that it is the Christians who have brought education to the masses." Christians have brought education to the masses, but in the form of conversion. Education in the eyes of Christian missionaries is the equivalent of preaching the Word of God. During the Enlightenment, education to the masses was championed by John Locke, Rousseau, and Thomas Jefferson. Those men happened to be deists, not Christians. Additionally, Muslim extremists have also brought education to the masses; Communism has brought education to the masses. Christianity is not in great company it seems when bringing education to the masses. Mao and Stalin both educated their subjects. However, you are correct that the foolishness reference in the Old Testament probably does not carry the foolishness as understood today. Revd Carter probably explains best what the scripture line means. But to use the modern day meaning of foolishness (lacking sense, lacking forethought), an argument that asserts only that God does not exist, or that God does exist, are foolish arguments. A conclusion is not an argument. Premises are needed to support the conclusions. My argument for the existence of God depends on my personal experiences, which makes my argument more subjective than objective. In the realm of logic utilized by Plato, Aristotle, and Thomas Aquinas, a subjective argument is weaker than an objective argument. An objective argument includes objective assertions based on facts external from the mind. I can't make an objective argument for the existence of God. That does not preclude others from making an argument for God. Finally, Mr. Robertson, don't patronize the others. It is offensive and unnecessary.
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Guest: U talkin to me?????????? (815 days ago)
David Robertson is a fool if he lets his life be consumed by so-called atheist fools, get a life you moron. Why do you spend so long replying? I suppose you will compose a 1,000,000 word response to this???????
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Guest: A. T. Heist (815 days ago)
Atheists aren't fools because the most prominent reborn Christian is Bush, therefore it is obvious that atheists are intellectually superior and Bible lovers are buffoons.
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Guest: Marcus (831 days ago)
What is better to believe - that there was nothing, then it exploded and created everything over a long period of time or - that there is a God who has always been there and created the universe and all that is in it including you. Just ponder that for a few seconds. I know which I believe - I believe in an all powerful god.
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Guest: Robert Smith (841 days ago)
Why am I writing this when I should be doing my physics homework? David Robertson - Cool. Hollybrah- keep it up! Mathias - Define 'radical' please. This argument concerns eternity. The answer is important, so the energy used examining the issue is well spent.
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Guest: Mathias (848 days ago)
As an atheist myself, I honestly am appalled at people who are radical on all sides of the religious field. Those who take joy in 'debunking' one another, especially on the internet of all places, are truly sad individuals, no matter what side they're on. Worrying about arbitrary things like religious background are simply a waste of your short life. Go outside, take a walk, and do something with yourself. There isn't a religious prerequisite for that.
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Guest: My Name? (850 days ago)
One thing I can't understand why fools spent a lot of manpower and money to discredit the Bible. If they do not believe it, why can't they ignore it instead of wasting time in vain. So fools will be always be fools.
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Guest: David Robertson (853 days ago)
Hi Judas, agreed - anyone who blindly follows anything - including atheism - is pretty dumb. What about those who don't blindly follow but actually intelligently follow? Some of us believe in God because we have thought about it - not in spite of thinking...
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Guest: Judas (854 days ago)
Some atheist are clearly fools, this is a fact. But those who blindly follow a religion are just plain dumb.
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Guest: David Robertson (855 days ago)
Daphne, how many wars were started by atheists? Try those started by Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and all the other great killers of the 20th century. Everyone of them atheists. As for being an 'insecure moron' it hardly speaks well for your own sense of security that you have to swear and insult those who disagree with you.Claire - it's time for atheists to have their say?! I've never known a time when atheists were silent. The atheistic world view is constantly paraded as the only truth.
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Guest: Claire Purvis (859 days ago)
You know what, how much do atheists get told u are wrong, and your beliefs have no proof. Well I'm sorry for the unfortunate choice of words but for God's sake, religious people come and preach to people in the street and knock on doors, it's time for atheists to have their say!
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Guest: claoire (859 days ago)
HOW DARE you tell atheists they are going to Hell Nora whoever you are! Just cos ur so bitter inside that not every1 believes exactly the same thing as you, you go and tell them they're going to Hell. I don't know what I believe in at the moment, but there's one thing I certainly believe, people who think they know everything are arrogant and rude! Let others have their own minds. gaaah.
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Guest: daphne (859 days ago)
Oh, and how many wars were started by atheists? Isn't it true that most wars are started by people with some kind of religion, trying to kill as many people with an other religion?? What about: you shall not kill?? All religions are fucking bullshit, and cause nothing but trouble. Just believe in yourself you insecure morons.
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Guest: daphne (859 days ago)
Atheists fools?? What about the people who believe some story about a guy who claimed to be the Son of God. that's not only foolish, it's sad...
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