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Poison (Atheist hip hop)

Poison (Atheist hip hop)

Opening sequence for The Atheist Experience #699 of March 6, 2011, with Matt Dillahunty and Tracie Harris using 'Poison' by Tombstone Da Deadman aka Rational Warrior

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Guest: (2381 days ago)
Do we say sex is bad because advertisers use it so sell us shit we don't need? Do we say language should be abolished because people use it to lie and manipulate us? The people who want to be in charge learned very early in human history that religion can be used to control people just like language and sex and every other human impulse. The people who are now who argue we should do away with religion because it can be used to manipulate us are at best unbalanced and at worst trying to manipulate us in another direction. They remind me of religious cults like the Shakers who banned sexual relations completely. Nobody likes competition.
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Do we say sex is bad because advertisers use it so sell us shit we don't need? Do we say language should be abolished because people use it to lie and manipulate us? The people who want to be in charge learned very early in human history that religion can be used to control people just like language and sex and every other human impulse. The people who are now who argue we should do away with religion because it can be used to manipulate us are at best unbalanced and at worst trying to manipulate us in another direction. They remind me of religious cults like the Shakers who banned sexual relations completely. Nobody likes competition.
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Guest: Realist (2381 days ago)
Religion in it's definition is a manufactured story that is used to manipulate a population. The point that Matt tries to make is that we don't need religion because we can no explain the world with logic and reason, not mythologies and lies. Sex is natural, language is natural, Religion is NOT natural.
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Religion in it's definition is a manufactured story that is used to manipulate a population. The point that Matt tries to make is that we don't need religion because we can no explain the world with logic and reason, not mythologies and lies. Sex is natural, language is natural, Religion is NOT natural.
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Guest: (2380 days ago)
No, the best definition of religion I know of is 'that which defines meaning and value in life'. Meaning and value can not be found rationally, they are like the premises of geometry you must assume them to operate. You can assume one set of premises or another like Euclidean or non-euclidean geometry but whatever you choose, that is your religion.
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No, the best definition of religion I know of is 'that which defines meaning and value in life'. Meaning and value can not be found rationally, they are like the premises of geometry you must assume them to operate. You can assume one set of premises or another like Euclidean or non-euclidean geometry but whatever you choose, that is your religion.
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Guest: subchimp (2380 days ago)
That definition misses out the political aspects of religion (as most f us understand it) - religion without political ambition is 'spirituallity', 'superstition' or 'tradition'.
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That definition misses out the political aspects of religion (as most f us understand it) - religion without political ambition is 'spirituallity', 'superstition' or 'tradition'.
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Guest: (2380 days ago)
I would say your definition imposes the political aspects. Many if not most religions, as the word is commonly used have not been co-opted to political purposes. The most common modern versions of Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Shinto certainly have but there are and have been a lot more religions than that. Most forms of Buddhism and Hinduism do not have political aspects as you seem to be mean. Spirituality is an aspect of religion, superstition a specific instance without meaning or value system, traditions do often have political aspects. You seem to have not thought your position through very well.
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I would say your definition imposes the political aspects. Many if not most religions, as the word is commonly used have not been co-opted to political purposes. The most common modern versions of Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Shinto certainly have but there are and have been a lot more religions than that. Most forms of Buddhism and Hinduism do not have political aspects as you seem to be mean. Spirituality is an aspect of religion, superstition a specific instance without meaning or value system, traditions do often have political aspects. You seem to have not thought your position through very well.
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Guest: Antisamit (2380 days ago)
Quote: "the best definition of religion I know of is 'that which defines meaning and value in life'." Like what? Praise the Lord and stone disobedient children? These are false meanings and some wrong values! That is the problem. Get rid of it!
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Quote: "the best definition of religion I know of is 'that which defines meaning and value in life'." Like what? Praise the Lord and stone disobedient children? These are false meanings and some wrong values! That is the problem. Get rid of it!
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Guest: (2380 days ago)
Let me give you an example. Is altruism good? Most people would say yes, but what happens to it when it becomes politicized? It becomes socialism, an excuse to dish out patronage and constrain liberty. Does that mean we should stop being altruistic? Does it even mean we should stop political altruism? I'd say no, what you've got to do is fight the abusers. It's a never ending struggle but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Human beings need their life to have meaning, they need a scale of values and they will find them. You can say it's all imaginary but what does that really mean. Our imaginations are as much a reflection of the cosmos as our senses. Imagination comes to us out of the same stuff as matter.
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Let me give you an example. Is altruism good? Most people would say yes, but what happens to it when it becomes politicized? It becomes socialism, an excuse to dish out patronage and constrain liberty. Does that mean we should stop being altruistic? Does it even mean we should stop political altruism? I'd say no, what you've got to do is fight the abusers. It's a never ending struggle but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Human beings need their life to have meaning, they need a scale of values and they will find them. You can say it's all imaginary but what does that really mean. Our imaginations are as much a reflection of the cosmos as our senses. Imagination comes to us out of the same stuff as matter.
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Guest: (2380 days ago)
There's no need to make this complicated - any large group of individuals with a shared value system, whether it projects/regards itself as or not, equals a political force. If that group construct their world view on a supernatural basis then you have a political group that is fundamentally immune to the power of evidence. Probably a bad thing in the long run.
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There's no need to make this complicated - any large group of individuals with a shared value system, whether it projects/regards itself as or not, equals a political force. If that group construct their world view on a supernatural basis then you have a political group that is fundamentally immune to the power of evidence. Probably a bad thing in the long run.
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Guest: (2380 days ago)
In my experience most people are pretty much immune to evidence they find objectionable, they don't require any supernatural buttressing. In any case if what you are saying is you object to politicized religion, I agree, I don't like it either, I just don't think it's a very good idea to repress a fundamental human drive because it can cause problems when it's abused.
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In my experience most people are pretty much immune to evidence they find objectionable, they don't require any supernatural buttressing. In any case if what you are saying is you object to politicized religion, I agree, I don't like it either, I just don't think it's a very good idea to repress a fundamental human drive because it can cause problems when it's abused.
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Guest: Antisamit (2380 days ago)
"You can say it's all imaginary but what does that really mean.(?)" It means they belive something, that is just in their mind, is true for everybody else. This is delusional childish wishful thinking. Get rid of it!
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"You can say it's all imaginary but what does that really mean.(?)" It means they belive something, that is just in their mind, is true for everybody else. This is delusional childish wishful thinking. Get rid of it!
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Guest: (2379 days ago)
Justice is just in your mind yet most of us believe it should be true for everybody, that it's not just wishful thinking, indeed that we need it, need to believe in it to be fully human.
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Justice is just in your mind yet most of us believe it should be true for everybody, that it's not just wishful thinking, indeed that we need it, need to believe in it to be fully human.
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Guest: Antisamit (2379 days ago)
Are you implying justice is imaginary? Don't answer! I think we have a different concept of the word "imaginary". Here ist a very good video showing (with facts) the bad influence of Religion on a population: LINK
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Are you implying justice is imaginary? Don't answer! I think we have a different concept of the word "imaginary". Here ist a very good video showing (with facts) the bad influence of Religion on a population: LINK
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Guest: (2379 days ago)
Your link doesn't work, maybe God smote it or somethin.
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Your link doesn't work, maybe God smote it or somethin.
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Guest: Antisamit (2379 days ago)
i don't know were the space in wa_tch came from. It is: LINK sorry
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i don't know were the space in wa_tch came from. It is: LINK sorry
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Guest: Antisamit (2379 days ago)
wtf???!
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wtf???!
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Guest: (2379 days ago)
My concept of the word imaginary is existing only in the mind, having no real, tangible substance, what's yours?
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My concept of the word imaginary is existing only in the mind, having no real, tangible substance, what's yours?
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Guest: Antisamit (2379 days ago)
What about justice materialising in curts, laws, prisons, etc . . .? Hmmm . . . jet you could reply that God materialises in churches. On the other hand unicorns materialise in toys. So my question to you is this: Do you see no difference in beliving in justice and beliving in unicorns?
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What about justice materialising in curts, laws, prisons, etc . . .? Hmmm . . . jet you could reply that God materialises in churches. On the other hand unicorns materialise in toys. So my question to you is this: Do you see no difference in beliving in justice and beliving in unicorns?
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Guest: (2379 days ago)
The point is not the difference, it's the similarity. You say you condemn religion because it is imaginary, meaning it can not be proved to exist by scientific means, yet you believe in justice which has no scientific meaning. My point is science is inadequate, for a complete human life you need religion. You can call it something else if you don't like that word but you are making a distinction without a difference.
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The point is not the difference, it's the similarity. You say you condemn religion because it is imaginary, meaning it can not be proved to exist by scientific means, yet you believe in justice which has no scientific meaning. My point is science is inadequate, for a complete human life you need religion. You can call it something else if you don't like that word but you are making a distinction without a difference.
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Guest: Antisamit (2378 days ago)
You didn't quite answer my question. So you see a difference between beliving in justice and beliving in unicorns. I think this ist a key point in our discussion. Name the difference! Don't dodge!
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You didn't quite answer my question. So you see a difference between beliving in justice and beliving in unicorns. I think this ist a key point in our discussion. Name the difference! Don't dodge!
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Guest: (2378 days ago)
No, it's a sideline. Believing in unicorns is asserting a material thing exists, in this case one which, being material, if it were real would very likely have produced material evidence of it's existence. Believing in justice or God is belief in an immaterial thing (or rather an extra-material one) which does not produce material evidence, indeed the notion of evidence does not apply to it. It's like expecting 327 to have footprints.
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No, it's a sideline. Believing in unicorns is asserting a material thing exists, in this case one which, being material, if it were real would very likely have produced material evidence of it's existence. Believing in justice or God is belief in an immaterial thing (or rather an extra-material one) which does not produce material evidence, indeed the notion of evidence does not apply to it. It's like expecting 327 to have footprints.
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Guest: Antisamit (2378 days ago)
But according to christianity God should produce material evidence! Animal distribution consistent with the story of noahs ark, significant effects of praying, suspentions of physical laws in order to perform miracles, etc. Since non of the material evidence exist, like in the case of the unicorn, this leads to the conclusion that the christian God does not exist.
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But according to christianity God should produce material evidence! Animal distribution consistent with the story of noahs ark, significant effects of praying, suspentions of physical laws in order to perform miracles, etc. Since non of the material evidence exist, like in the case of the unicorn, this leads to the conclusion that the christian God does not exist.
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Guest: (2378 days ago)
If think I am apologizing for everything which has ever been dreamed up in the name of Christianity you labour under a misapprehension. It would be impossible in any case since much of it is contradictory. Religion is not a synonym for Christianity or Islam or Judaism. Religion is what happens when you are confronted with the mystery of existence and the question of how to live. True atheists answer the mystery is illusion and how to live is convention or the product of natural forces which simply 'are' but I've never met anyone who acts as if they really believed this was true. In my experience everyone has a religion, some people just don't recognize or admit it.
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If think I am apologizing for everything which has ever been dreamed up in the name of Christianity you labour under a misapprehension. It would be impossible in any case since much of it is contradictory. Religion is not a synonym for Christianity or Islam or Judaism. Religion is what happens when you are confronted with the mystery of existence and the question of how to live. True atheists answer the mystery is illusion and how to live is convention or the product of natural forces which simply 'are' but I've never met anyone who acts as if they really believed this was true. In my experience everyone has a religion, some people just don't recognize or admit it.
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Guest: Antisamit (2377 days ago)
You have a weird concept of the word "religion". Dictionary.com says: "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." By this definition a reasonable person would say that atheism is not a religion. In order to give the word "religion" a useful meaning you need to allow some sets of belives to be not a religion. Otherwise we can't continue with our discussion.
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You have a weird concept of the word "religion". Dictionary.com says: "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." By this definition a reasonable person would say that atheism is not a religion. In order to give the word "religion" a useful meaning you need to allow some sets of belives to be not a religion. Otherwise we can't continue with our discussion.
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Guest: (2377 days ago)
I'd agree with that definition, I'm just saying none of the avowed atheists I've met fail to fulfill it in their actions. They don't have the parts following 'especially', which are obviously not essential to the definition but they act as if they have "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe" even if they say they don't.
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I'd agree with that definition, I'm just saying none of the avowed atheists I've met fail to fulfill it in their actions. They don't have the parts following 'especially', which are obviously not essential to the definition but they act as if they have "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe" even if they say they don't.
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Guest: Antisamit (2376 days ago)
I now understand how you use the concept of the word religion. Normaly it is used as "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies . . ." But I must admit that your focus on the first 13 words is valid, although I find it misleading for most people. In that sense my religion would be science and humanism. I am curious, what's your religion?
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I now understand how you use the concept of the word religion. Normaly it is used as "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies . . ." But I must admit that your focus on the first 13 words is valid, although I find it misleading for most people. In that sense my religion would be science and humanism. I am curious, what's your religion?
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Guest: (2376 days ago)
Most modern religions are what is called revealed religion, as in someone had God speak to them is a special direct way. I'm skeptical of this or at least how it has come down to us. There was a fashion about a hundred fifty years ago for what was called derived religion, as in you look at the cosmos and try to figure out God's (not a big guy in the sky with an account book obviously) works and purposes from what you can see and feel. It's like science but with a truly open mind and without the extreme reductionism. There is a point in the examination of the examiner examining where reductionism turns into nonsense.
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Most modern religions are what is called revealed religion, as in someone had God speak to them is a special direct way. I'm skeptical of this or at least how it has come down to us. There was a fashion about a hundred fifty years ago for what was called derived religion, as in you look at the cosmos and try to figure out God's (not a big guy in the sky with an account book obviously) works and purposes from what you can see and feel. It's like science but with a truly open mind and without the extreme reductionism. There is a point in the examination of the examiner examining where reductionism turns into nonsense.
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Guest: Antisamit (2375 days ago)
So would you agree that there should be less people on this planet with a close-minded dogmatic belive in a big guy in the sky? Because that's what Matt's show is all about.
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So would you agree that there should be less people on this planet with a close-minded dogmatic belive in a big guy in the sky? Because that's what Matt's show is all about.
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Guest: (2375 days ago)
I agree to the extent fewer people should have close-minded dogmatic beliefs but I see those beliefs in many more people than just those who follow traditional religion. There is a lot that's good about traditional religion as well as a lot that's obviously a problem, the same could be said of scientific materialism. Then there is the misrepresentation of materialism and existentialism as synonyms for atheism. I think most religious people can tell there is something which doesn't add up there even if they can't tell what it is. I haven't seen any of these shows except the ones which have appeared here, those seem to be more about arguing that because your myths are obviously just that and your church is corrupt you must become a materialist, that's like saying because the history you were taught in school was inaccurate and your government is corrupt you must become an anarchist.
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I agree to the extent fewer people should have close-minded dogmatic beliefs but I see those beliefs in many more people than just those who follow traditional religion. There is a lot that's good about traditional religion as well as a lot that's obviously a problem, the same could be said of scientific materialism. Then there is the misrepresentation of materialism and existentialism as synonyms for atheism. I think most religious people can tell there is something which doesn't add up there even if they can't tell what it is. I haven't seen any of these shows except the ones which have appeared here, those seem to be more about arguing that because your myths are obviously just that and your church is corrupt you must become a materialist, that's like saying because the history you were taught in school was inaccurate and your government is corrupt you must become an anarchist.
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Guest: Antisamit (2375 days ago)
Very good analogy! It stumped me for a second. Then I realize, that at one point where inaccuracies become lies and corruption becomes mass murder (like in Libya) it realy is the right choice to fight the government. And the Libyans aren't anarchists how want no government, they want a new and better one. In that sence everybody brought up in an close-minded dogmatic belief system should rebel against and seek for a new "religion". This applies to most christians, muslims, hindus and jews. If you don't watch The Atheist Experience you should at least see this one episode because I think it sums up everything: LINK
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Very good analogy! It stumped me for a second. Then I realize, that at one point where inaccuracies become lies and corruption becomes mass murder (like in Libya) it realy is the right choice to fight the government. And the Libyans aren't anarchists how want no government, they want a new and better one. In that sence everybody brought up in an close-minded dogmatic belief system should rebel against and seek for a new "religion". This applies to most christians, muslims, hindus and jews. If you don't watch The Atheist Experience you should at least see this one episode because I think it sums up everything: LINK
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Guest: Antisamit (2375 days ago)
The link has a space in wa_tch you have to remove. I don't know why this keeps happening.
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The link has a space in wa_tch you have to remove. I don't know why this keeps happening.
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Guest: (2375 days ago)
I'd agree with that. The impulse to religion isn't itself a bad thing but it has been historically harnessed to take advantage of people leading to gross abuses. The problem isn't religion, it's that some people are unscrupulous and most are unbalanced. The modern world places all sorts of stresses on people which distort our nature but you can't fix the problem by trying to re-create man as some sort of rational automaton.
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I'd agree with that. The impulse to religion isn't itself a bad thing but it has been historically harnessed to take advantage of people leading to gross abuses. The problem isn't religion, it's that some people are unscrupulous and most are unbalanced. The modern world places all sorts of stresses on people which distort our nature but you can't fix the problem by trying to re-create man as some sort of rational automaton.
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Guest: loki (2380 days ago)
LIKE VERY MUCH! but its still got the kernal of dodgy bollocks thinking: un owned attachment style of the rapper (and probably Matt blessed be his name)
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LIKE VERY MUCH! but its still got the kernal of dodgy bollocks thinking: un owned attachment style of the rapper (and probably Matt blessed be his name)
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Guest: zodiac (1408 days ago)
Latest comment: I see no problem with religion per se if it helps you get thru your day/life.......the problem seems to occur when intolerance of other beliefs/non beliefs kicks in and the inability to accept other views offends to the extent that you have to try and convert all to your way or no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! live and let live you dickheads.
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Latest comment: I see no problem with religion per se if it helps you get thru your day/life.......the problem seems to occur when intolerance of other beliefs/non beliefs kicks in and the inability to accept other views offends to the extent that you have to try and convert all to your way or no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! live and let live you dickheads.
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Guest: Altair (2381 days ago)
Nothing is true, everything is permited!
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Nothing is true, everything is permited!
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