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How Apple avoids tax

How Apple avoids tax

(8:19) US senators and tax law professors have accused Apple of multi billion dollar tax avoidance. The Guardian reports on how Apple's dirty little secret works.

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Guest: (1630 days ago)
Latest comment: voting system is broken. see below
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Latest comment: voting system is broken. see below
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Guest: iknowlessthanyoudo (1632 days ago)
Politicians would leave Apple alone if Steve Jobs was still alive. Thousands of companies just call congressional staffers and have the IRS, EPA, SEC, FTC and others drop inquires due to still being alive to attend $10K-$25K plate fund-raising dinners. I've personally seen it happen several times but government rules for CPAs prevent them from squealing.
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Politicians would leave Apple alone if Steve Jobs was still alive. Thousands of companies just call congressional staffers and have the IRS, EPA, SEC, FTC and others drop inquires due to still being alive to attend $10K-$25K plate fund-raising dinners. I've personally seen it happen several times but government rules for CPAs prevent them from squealing.
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Knobette Knobette (1633 days ago)
I don't like Apple anymore
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I don't like Apple anymore
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tornadodog tornadodog (1633 days ago)
the greed of capitialism is so out of control that the world powers that aloud them to grow no longer have control of them. have apple broke the law on this i would say no?? it would also appear that the master is now capitialism and the world leaders are the puppets of it
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the greed of capitialism is so out of control that the world powers that aloud them to grow no longer have control of them. have apple broke the law on this i would say no?? it would also appear that the master is now capitialism and the world leaders are the puppets of it
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Guest: Hypocricy exposed (1633 days ago)
Pot, Kettle Black from the Guardian. Where does GMG (Guardian Media Gp) pay its Tax?? Not in the UK, that's for sure
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Pot, Kettle Black from the Guardian. Where does GMG (Guardian Media Gp) pay its Tax?? Not in the UK, that's for sure
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Guest: (1633 days ago)
so GMC pays little taxes instead of paying zero taxes? that's much more controversial than apple not paying taxes at all.
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so GMC pays little taxes instead of paying zero taxes? that's much more controversial than apple not paying taxes at all.
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cengland0 cengland0 (1633 days ago)
You have it wrong. Apple does pay taxes and is one of the biggest tax payers in the USA. They paid nearly 6 billion in taxes in 2012 and that represents 30% of their income. How much more do you expect them to pay? You want companies to pay more taxes, fine. They will just increase their prices so the consumer ends up paying it. Do you want higher prices?
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You have it wrong. Apple does pay taxes and is one of the biggest tax payers in the USA. They paid nearly 6 billion in taxes in 2012 and that represents 30% of their income. How much more do you expect them to pay? You want companies to pay more taxes, fine. They will just increase their prices so the consumer ends up paying it. Do you want higher prices?
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WalterEgo WalterEgo (1632 days ago)
Where do you get your stats from? According to Forbes, in 2012 Apple paid 25.2%, but if you include the dodgy bits, the effective rate was 13.8%. LINK US corporate tax rate is 35%.
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Where do you get your stats from? According to Forbes, in 2012 Apple paid 25.2%, but if you include the dodgy bits, the effective rate was 13.8%. LINK US corporate tax rate is 35%.
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cengland0 cengland0 (1632 days ago)
Apple is likely the largest corporate income tax payer in the US, having paid nearly $6 billion in taxes to the US Treasury in FY2012," the statement says. "These payments account for $1 in every $40 in corporate income tax the US Treasury collected last year." It puts its tax rate at roughly 30 percent. LINK
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Apple is likely the largest corporate income tax payer in the US, having paid nearly $6 billion in taxes to the US Treasury in FY2012," the statement says. "These payments account for $1 in every $40 in corporate income tax the US Treasury collected last year." It puts its tax rate at roughly 30 percent. LINK
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Guest: (1632 days ago)
i guess those US senators are dumb cu*ts for bringing this up, eh?
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i guess those US senators are dumb cu*ts for bringing this up, eh?
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cengland0 cengland0 (1632 days ago)
I guess so. They didn't do their research first because if they had, they would have seen that 6 billion was paid. How can that be disputed? Regardless if it's 30$ or WalterEgo's 25.2%, they still paid more than any other company in the USA and the senators want them to pay more? Ridiculous.
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I guess so. They didn't do their research first because if they had, they would have seen that 6 billion was paid. How can that be disputed? Regardless if it's 30$ or WalterEgo's 25.2%, they still paid more than any other company in the USA and the senators want them to pay more? Ridiculous.
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WalterEgo WalterEgo (1632 days ago)
First of all, these are not my figures, 25.2% is Apple's figure. 13.8% is if you factor in the 0% tax they paid on other profit (according to Forbes). If this video is correct, Apple Operations International paid 0% tax on $30 billion of profits over 4 years. According to another Guadian article: "Apple Sales International (ASI), reported sales income of $74bn over four years but paid hardly any tax. In 2011 ASI had pre-tax earnings of $22bn but paid just $10m in tax, a rate of 0.05%." LINK Thing is, Apple CEO Tim Cook claims their tax affairs are legal, but also within the spirit of the law. Do you think they are acting within the spirit of the law?
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First of all, these are not my figures, 25.2% is Apple's figure. 13.8% is if you factor in the 0% tax they paid on other profit (according to Forbes). If this video is correct, Apple Operations International paid 0% tax on $30 billion of profits over 4 years. According to another Guadian article: "Apple Sales International (ASI), reported sales income of $74bn over four years but paid hardly any tax. In 2011 ASI had pre-tax earnings of $22bn but paid just $10m in tax, a rate of 0.05%." LINK Thing is, Apple CEO Tim Cook claims their tax affairs are legal, but also within the spirit of the law. Do you think they are acting within the spirit of the law?
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Guest: guest123456789 (1632 days ago)
...well at least i think so,yes! these are the tax laws the US corporations lobbied for and this is what they're getting. Is it also immoral and not fair? definitely yes! the problem is (as far as i can tell) that the US senators never expected them to be so low, and now they're trying to act on it.
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...well at least i think so,yes! these are the tax laws the US corporations lobbied for and this is what they're getting. Is it also immoral and not fair? definitely yes! the problem is (as far as i can tell) that the US senators never expected them to be so low, and now they're trying to act on it.
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Guest: Guest20133105 (1632 days ago)
The amount Apple paid is irrelevant. As WalterEgo informed you they only paid 13.8% in Tax. What happended to the other 21.2%
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The amount Apple paid is irrelevant. As WalterEgo informed you they only paid 13.8% in Tax. What happended to the other 21.2%
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Guest: Argle (1632 days ago)
I have a dirty little secret, too. I manage to avoid paying speeding tickets through this little loophole called "speed limits." As long as I stay below those limits, I avoid the fees 100%. So all you people getting speeding tickets are picking up the financial slack of paying for community services instead of me. Suckers! What? Wait? That's just called "obeying the law?" And nobody thinks I'm a weasel for doing so? Well, gosh, so why is anyone bent out of shape for Apple obeying tax laws that can work to their advantage? All of you refusing to take legal deductions on your income tax may feel free to throw the first stones.
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I have a dirty little secret, too. I manage to avoid paying speeding tickets through this little loophole called "speed limits." As long as I stay below those limits, I avoid the fees 100%. So all you people getting speeding tickets are picking up the financial slack of paying for community services instead of me. Suckers! What? Wait? That's just called "obeying the law?" And nobody thinks I'm a weasel for doing so? Well, gosh, so why is anyone bent out of shape for Apple obeying tax laws that can work to their advantage? All of you refusing to take legal deductions on your income tax may feel free to throw the first stones.
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Guest: GreedIsGood (1632 days ago)
Your missing the point. Take your speeding fine analogy. Anyone that drives a car has to abide by the same laws of the country they are driving in (i.e. speeding). The laws are no different if you drive a Porche or a Ford Mondeo. Tax is different. Employed people have to pay TAX at source (PAYE) at the prevailing % rate of the country that they work in, they have no choice. Companies like Apple who sell their goods in the same country as the employed person have the ability to move their sales to another country whose prevailing TAX % rate is lower. So Apple pay less TAX on their profits and bypass paying any TAX to the country their company resides in. If every employed person had the same ability to bypass paying TAX, the country in which they worked would not get any TAX income. We would all have offshore TAX havens in the Cayman Isles, have millions of dollars but live in a shit hole because the country wouldn't have any monet to spend on hospitals, schools or infrastructue.
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Your missing the point. Take your speeding fine analogy. Anyone that drives a car has to abide by the same laws of the country they are driving in (i.e. speeding). The laws are no different if you drive a Porche or a Ford Mondeo. Tax is different. Employed people have to pay TAX at source (PAYE) at the prevailing % rate of the country that they work in, they have no choice. Companies like Apple who sell their goods in the same country as the employed person have the ability to move their sales to another country whose prevailing TAX % rate is lower. So Apple pay less TAX on their profits and bypass paying any TAX to the country their company resides in. If every employed person had the same ability to bypass paying TAX, the country in which they worked would not get any TAX income. We would all have offshore TAX havens in the Cayman Isles, have millions of dollars but live in a shit hole because the country wouldn't have any monet to spend on hospitals, schools or infrastructue.
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Guest: guest123456789 (1632 days ago)
good point! it is the law...poorly made law...but still the law, or better said, laws. the whole thing started because of the way Ireland and the USA view the headquarters of a corporation. The countries should work together to harmonize their laws so that stuff like this doesn't happen in the future. I think that Ireland has it right.
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good point! it is the law...poorly made law...but still the law, or better said, laws. the whole thing started because of the way Ireland and the USA view the headquarters of a corporation. The countries should work together to harmonize their laws so that stuff like this doesn't happen in the future. I think that Ireland has it right.
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cengland0 cengland0 (1632 days ago)
Excellent post and one of the best ones so far. I hire an accountant to make sure that I pay as little taxes as legally possible. I wouldn't expect anything less of a large company. I'm sure they have tax lawyers and accountants that do a very good job at this.
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Excellent post and one of the best ones so far. I hire an accountant to make sure that I pay as little taxes as legally possible. I wouldn't expect anything less of a large company. I'm sure they have tax lawyers and accountants that do a very good job at this.
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Guest: Ignorance is bliss (1632 days ago)
Hmm, by that type of logic everything that is legal becomes right. So finding a state that allows slavery and building an empire on slaves would be ok in that state. Why do we even criticize China, North Korea or any other state for that matter, as everything is perfectly legal. And by the way, concentration camps where backed up by law in Nazi Germany too. Do you even think of the consequences before you write something?
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Hmm, by that type of logic everything that is legal becomes right. So finding a state that allows slavery and building an empire on slaves would be ok in that state. Why do we even criticize China, North Korea or any other state for that matter, as everything is perfectly legal. And by the way, concentration camps where backed up by law in Nazi Germany too. Do you even think of the consequences before you write something?
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Guest: guest123456789 (1632 days ago)
so who's right? the US taxman preoccupied with where companies are incorporated OR the Irish taxman preoccupied with where the company is managed and controlled? i think the irish have it right, but what do you think? I would be surprised if you were to agree with me on this one.
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so who's right? the US taxman preoccupied with where companies are incorporated OR the Irish taxman preoccupied with where the company is managed and controlled? i think the irish have it right, but what do you think? I would be surprised if you were to agree with me on this one.
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cengland0 cengland0 (1632 days ago)
I cannot answer that question because I have an EA accountant that does my taxes and she is the expert -- not me. I'll defer that to the experts to figure out.
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I cannot answer that question because I have an EA accountant that does my taxes and she is the expert -- not me. I'll defer that to the experts to figure out.
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Guest: guest123456789 (1632 days ago)
i have to hand it to the way you dodged this bullet. kudos for the nice exit :)
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i have to hand it to the way you dodged this bullet. kudos for the nice exit :)
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Guest: guest123456789 (1632 days ago)
...that sounds stupid, i must be tired or something, here i go again. I have to hand it to you for the way you dodged this bullet. Kudos for the nice exit... i think i'll want that account for editing... soon enough...
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...that sounds stupid, i must be tired or something, here i go again. I have to hand it to you for the way you dodged this bullet. Kudos for the nice exit... i think i'll want that account for editing... soon enough...
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cengland0 cengland0 (1632 days ago)
What bullet did I dodge? I was merely educating the boreme members and guests that this video is extremely misleading because Apple does pay taxes and pays more than any other USA company. You then asked me a question that I'm not qualified to answer and you think I'm being sneaky or something. I'm just trying to be honest about my expertise.
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What bullet did I dodge? I was merely educating the boreme members and guests that this video is extremely misleading because Apple does pay taxes and pays more than any other USA company. You then asked me a question that I'm not qualified to answer and you think I'm being sneaky or something. I'm just trying to be honest about my expertise.
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Guest: guest123456789 (1632 days ago)
ok Cengy, i'll buy it this time :) sorry for thinking that you were being sneaky and pretending not to have an opinion on this (as you have for anything else) when in fact you like the US tax-man's way of doing things. I guess i caught you off guard and unopinionated on this one... so i apologize.
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ok Cengy, i'll buy it this time :) sorry for thinking that you were being sneaky and pretending not to have an opinion on this (as you have for anything else) when in fact you like the US tax-man's way of doing things. I guess i caught you off guard and unopinionated on this one... so i apologize.
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