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Candidate Obama vs President Obama over government surveillance

Candidate Obama vs President Obama over government surveillance

(2:35) On August 1st, 2007, presidential candidate Barack Obama sharply criticised George W. Bush's government surveillance programs. But in 2013, he has changed his stance.

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glortman glortman (1621 days ago)
Neither Obama is wrong. I prefer the optimism and ideals of the candidate, but understand the forced acquiescence of the President. Large, unimaginably complex systems such as nation states have an internal vector and momentum that might be slightly modified, but like a gyroscope are likely to spin on, regardless of the actions of any single individual. Imagining the list of lesser evils offered to every leader by the whirring cogs of government and industry inspires amazement that things aren't much, much worse.
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Neither Obama is wrong. I prefer the optimism and ideals of the candidate, but understand the forced acquiescence of the President. Large, unimaginably complex systems such as nation states have an internal vector and momentum that might be slightly modified, but like a gyroscope are likely to spin on, regardless of the actions of any single individual. Imagining the list of lesser evils offered to every leader by the whirring cogs of government and industry inspires amazement that things aren't much, much worse.
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Guest: guest123456789 (1622 days ago)
i use to like this guy... i was so wrong...
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i use to like this guy... i was so wrong...
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Guest: (1621 days ago)
Has there ever been a candidate that sang the same song after he was elected?
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Has there ever been a candidate that sang the same song after he was elected?
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Guest: guest123456789 (1620 days ago)
Latest comment: yes, Theodore Roosevelt , Andrew Jackson ,etc.
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Latest comment: yes, Theodore Roosevelt , Andrew Jackson ,etc.
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WalterEgo WalterEgo (1621 days ago)
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Emotionally I'm pulled towards candidate Obama, but I don't think that position makes sense today, or even in 2007. I think we need to understand that when we interact with technology, that's our privacy gone. Already Facebook knows you personally, Google tracks your every move on the internet for advertising purposes, CCTV, your bank card, your mobile all track you in the physical world. And if this information is cross-referenced, no doubt it is enormously powerful in the fight against terrorism. The thing about terrorism is that you have to catch the terrorist BEFORE they act. Other crimes, like robbing a bank, you can concentrate on catching the culprits afterwards. Almost everything we do is on record somewhere. I think we shouldn't be fighting for less surveillance, we should understand that privacy is a thing of the past, and fight for transparency. And since this is all new territory, we need creative ideas on how to safeguard our personal information from abuses.
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I'm not sure how I feel about this. Emotionally I'm pulled towards candidate Obama, but I don't think that position makes sense today, or even in 2007. I think we need to understand that when we interact with technology, that's our privacy gone. Already Facebook knows you personally, Google tracks your every move on the internet for advertising purposes, CCTV, your bank card, your mobile all track you in the physical world. And if this information is cross-referenced, no doubt it is enormously powerful in the fight against terrorism. The thing about terrorism is that you have to catch the terrorist BEFORE they act. Other crimes, like robbing a bank, you can concentrate on catching the culprits afterwards. Almost everything we do is on record somewhere. I think we shouldn't be fighting for less surveillance, we should understand that privacy is a thing of the past, and fight for transparency. And since this is all new territory, we need creative ideas on how to safeguard our personal information from abuses.
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Guest: (1621 days ago)
I'm not sure whether you'll find this creative, but try exercising your freedom to not having anything to do with facebook or myspace or any social media. Turns out, I could care less who your friends are, or whether you enjoy watching hockey, or whatever unimportant personal stuff you publish to the whole world. I've never been on it, never "tweeted" anything, have never had a cell phone, and I'm doing just fine, fully integrated into modern society without electronic gadgets in my pockets. If I want to talk with someone, I'd rather stand next to them and look them in the eye, anyway. If I need to make a phone call, there's a telephone on the wall in the kitchen where it belongs. Google is welcome to track my every keystroke for advertising purposes; I don't buy crap advertised in pop up ads anyway, so who cares?
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I'm not sure whether you'll find this creative, but try exercising your freedom to not having anything to do with facebook or myspace or any social media. Turns out, I could care less who your friends are, or whether you enjoy watching hockey, or whatever unimportant personal stuff you publish to the whole world. I've never been on it, never "tweeted" anything, have never had a cell phone, and I'm doing just fine, fully integrated into modern society without electronic gadgets in my pockets. If I want to talk with someone, I'd rather stand next to them and look them in the eye, anyway. If I need to make a phone call, there's a telephone on the wall in the kitchen where it belongs. Google is welcome to track my every keystroke for advertising purposes; I don't buy crap advertised in pop up ads anyway, so who cares?
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Guest: Miss Anne Thrope (1621 days ago)
You'd be a Merkin I'd wager. The phrase you're looking for is, "I couldn't care less," which precisely indicates that there isn't anything else you could or would care about. All you've said is that you care more, or less, about other things: that is, you haven't said anything. I do agree with what I think you care about though.
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You'd be a Merkin I'd wager. The phrase you're looking for is, "I couldn't care less," which precisely indicates that there isn't anything else you could or would care about. All you've said is that you care more, or less, about other things: that is, you haven't said anything. I do agree with what I think you care about though.
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glortman glortman (1621 days ago)
Clever response.
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Clever response.
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Guest: Casey (1621 days ago)
That's your problem Walter, your emotions can be played and its what politicians are so good at doing. I've been telling every liberal, don't listen to what he says, look at what he does! What amazes me is how easily liberals have given up their core philosophies so easily! Freedom of speech, privacy etc. because a black liberal is in office? Unbelievable! But to believe the state has to know everything about you is necessary for your own safety! You know the saying " those who give up a little liberty for a little safety deserve neither" Just look around the world today and historically, it's the govt. that is the problem either screwing the people in conjunction with bankers and business or outright turning to dictatorship. You must never allow govt. one inch of your liberty. A timely quote.... "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
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That's your problem Walter, your emotions can be played and its what politicians are so good at doing. I've been telling every liberal, don't listen to what he says, look at what he does! What amazes me is how easily liberals have given up their core philosophies so easily! Freedom of speech, privacy etc. because a black liberal is in office? Unbelievable! But to believe the state has to know everything about you is necessary for your own safety! You know the saying " those who give up a little liberty for a little safety deserve neither" Just look around the world today and historically, it's the govt. that is the problem either screwing the people in conjunction with bankers and business or outright turning to dictatorship. You must never allow govt. one inch of your liberty. A timely quote.... "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
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WalterEgo WalterEgo (1621 days ago)
I'm not saying the state has to know everything about us, I'm saying the state (and some corporations) DO know everything about us. That is a fact of life and has always been, the only difference between now and the Middle Ages is technology. And it will continue, either in the open or in secret. What this should be about is access to that information. We need to find ways so that we (the people) can also have access to the same information to fight corrupt government officials and corrupt corporate leaders. I would argue that is where most of the serious crime lies.
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I'm not saying the state has to know everything about us, I'm saying the state (and some corporations) DO know everything about us. That is a fact of life and has always been, the only difference between now and the Middle Ages is technology. And it will continue, either in the open or in secret. What this should be about is access to that information. We need to find ways so that we (the people) can also have access to the same information to fight corrupt government officials and corrupt corporate leaders. I would argue that is where most of the serious crime lies.
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Guest: Casey (1621 days ago)
I wouldn't say they know everything about us but they are definitely trying to and that is just plain wrong, it's spelled out in most country's laws and rights to privacy. There should be no tolerance under any circumstance for the state or coloration to violate that most basic right and if it is proven as such then the perpetrators must be held accountable. This talk of finding common ground and compromise is setting a dangerous precedent which will be abused as it looks like it already has been. I would definetly agree that is where the most serious crime lies, and always lies. As individuals and even corporations we can only do so much damage but a govt. has the ability and power to completely destroy all in its power...if we let it!
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I wouldn't say they know everything about us but they are definitely trying to and that is just plain wrong, it's spelled out in most country's laws and rights to privacy. There should be no tolerance under any circumstance for the state or coloration to violate that most basic right and if it is proven as such then the perpetrators must be held accountable. This talk of finding common ground and compromise is setting a dangerous precedent which will be abused as it looks like it already has been. I would definetly agree that is where the most serious crime lies, and always lies. As individuals and even corporations we can only do so much damage but a govt. has the ability and power to completely destroy all in its power...if we let it!
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