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British soldier slams fighting for

British soldier slams fighting for "Queen and Country"

(8:37) Former British SAS soldier Benjamin Griffin refused to return to Iraq after questioning the concept of "Queen and Country" and the religion of patriotism.

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Guest: this is SPARTA (1465 days ago)
Latest comment:

Yes, I also consider the last Iraqi invasion an illegal war. It was not a war of defense but an act of agresion against a vastly weaker opponent. The support for war was engineered by a vast public relations machine. I will never forget the fake testimony claiming that Iraqi troops had thrown babies out of incubators when looting Kuwati hospitals.

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Yes, I also consider the last Iraqi invasion an illegal war. It was not a war of defense but an act of agresion against a vastly weaker opponent. The support for war was engineered by a vast public relations machine. I will never forget the fake testimony claiming that Iraqi troops had thrown babies out of incubators when looting Kuwati hospitals.

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uncomment uncomment (1465 days ago)

dananddianna, if you listen again to this man's statement, this time ignoring the rhetoric he employs to emphasise his point, you will discover that he has only one major objection. It is not the act of war itself, but the 'justification' for it in the first place. I know many former and serving military personnel who would,without exception, go to war to repel and/or remove a threat to their own national security. Many told me they would also go to war to aid allies if threatened in a similar manner.

When war is declared for these reasons no 'desensitising' is required. This only happens when the reasons behind the martial decision are, at best, highly questionable, but in reality, are immoral, illegal and utterly un-justifiable.

The last three major conflicts have resulted from decisions based on profit, political power games and paranoia.

Saddam invaded Kuwait. Strange how their pleas for help went largely unnoticed until the Saudis intervened on their behalf. Reason for war? Oil. Justification? "To remove a brutal dictator and invader". Result? Oil saved, but not before a massive price increase had produced obscene profits. Saddam and his regime left largely intact. "We won". Tick that box.

Gulf War II. Reason for war? GW Bush's determination to succeed where his daddy had failed so miserably. Justification? The discovery that Saddam was building WMDs (for which not a single shred of evidence has ever been produced). Result? "We won." Tick another box.

Afghanistan. Reason. Who really knows??? Justification? To rid the people of the brutal Taliban regime - citing their utter disregard for human rights. Stoning of women. Public beheadings and such like. Strange that not long before this 'we' had rushed to the aid of two nations operating along very similar grounds. Oh, that's right, I nearly forgot. Of course, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have oil.

No soldier ever signed up to risk his life for profit and presidential/Prime Ministerial paranoia.

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dananddianna, if you listen again to this man's statement, this time ignoring the rhetoric he employs to emphasise his point, you will discover that he has only one major objection. It is not the act of war itself, but the 'justification' for it in the first place. I know many former and serving military personnel who would,without exception, go to war to repel and/or remove a threat to their own national security. Many told me they would also go to war to aid allies if threatened in a similar manner.

When war is declared for these reasons no 'desensitising' is required. This only happens when the reasons behind the martial decision are, at best, highly questionable, but in reality, are immoral, illegal and utterly un-justifiable.

The last three major conflicts have resulted from decisions based on profit, political power games and paranoia.

Saddam invaded Kuwait. Strange how their pleas for help went largely unnoticed until the Saudis intervened on their behalf. Reason for war? Oil. Justification? "To remove a brutal dictator and invader". Result? Oil saved, but not before a massive price increase had produced obscene profits. Saddam and his regime left largely intact. "We won". Tick that box.

Gulf War II. Reason for war? GW Bush's determination to succeed where his daddy had failed so miserably. Justification? The discovery that Saddam was building WMDs (for which not a single shred of evidence has ever been produced). Result? "We won." Tick another box.

Afghanistan. Reason. Who really knows??? Justification? To rid the people of the brutal Taliban regime - citing their utter disregard for human rights. Stoning of women. Public beheadings and such like. Strange that not long before this 'we' had rushed to the aid of two nations operating along very similar grounds. Oh, that's right, I nearly forgot. Of course, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have oil.

No soldier ever signed up to risk his life for profit and presidential/Prime Ministerial paranoia.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (1469 days ago)

The thinking man's soldier.

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The thinking man's soldier.

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Guest: hun (1470 days ago)

you left out dune koon

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you left out dune koon

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Guest: al berta (1470 days ago)

Well why did he f u c k ing Join up then? Mr Angry asshole!!

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Well why did he f u c k ing Join up then? Mr Angry asshole!!

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dananddiana dananddiana (1469 days ago)

It is surprising how some people suddenly find war wrong after they have had to partissipate. Some people join the forces, aquire all kinds of education and benifits for free then when they are actually called on to fight for their country they suddenly become very verbal anti war activists!

If you don't want to fight for your country, don't join the military. There is no draft, YOU volunteered! What the h@ll do you think war is ..fun?

This man signed up to defend Queen and Country then when he was actually called to do so, he changed his mind. Bit too scary for him maybe?

He had the obligation to fullfill his contract with the Military first,. THEN if he wanted to spout off against it he could. Refusing to go back and publicly speaking against it is just cowardly and dishonorable.

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It is surprising how some people suddenly find war wrong after they have had to partissipate. Some people join the forces, aquire all kinds of education and benifits for free then when they are actually called on to fight for their country they suddenly become very verbal anti war activists!

If you don't want to fight for your country, don't join the military. There is no draft, YOU volunteered! What the h@ll do you think war is ..fun?

This man signed up to defend Queen and Country then when he was actually called to do so, he changed his mind. Bit too scary for him maybe?

He had the obligation to fullfill his contract with the Military first,. THEN if he wanted to spout off against it he could. Refusing to go back and publicly speaking against it is just cowardly and dishonorable.

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MyName MyName (1469 days ago)

Hi danandiana. To be fair, if he really is ex SAS, I doubt it was too scary for him, although you'd have to be pretty inhumane not to be affected by it. I bet he didn't suddenly find war wrong, just gradually sickened.

And as guesting said above, some people change their views based on experiences.

Also, as a member of the SAS, he will have been a very experienced soldier before joining them, so it wouldn't have been a sudden change of heart.

Finally, I'm pretty sure he has fulfilled his contract, it would be very unusual for a serving officer to speak like this, they usually wait until they have left.

Personally, I'm glad he spoke up. It's how a lot of people feel about war but servicemen/ex-servicemen rarely say it. Civilians are often told we don't understand, where as he has seen it and done it and has changed his views, it shows he wasn't completely brainwashed.

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Hi danandiana. To be fair, if he really is ex SAS, I doubt it was too scary for him, although you'd have to be pretty inhumane not to be affected by it. I bet he didn't suddenly find war wrong, just gradually sickened.

And as guesting said above, some people change their views based on experiences.

Also, as a member of the SAS, he will have been a very experienced soldier before joining them, so it wouldn't have been a sudden change of heart.

Finally, I'm pretty sure he has fulfilled his contract, it would be very unusual for a serving officer to speak like this, they usually wait until they have left.

Personally, I'm glad he spoke up. It's how a lot of people feel about war but servicemen/ex-servicemen rarely say it. Civilians are often told we don't understand, where as he has seen it and done it and has changed his views, it shows he wasn't completely brainwashed.

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dananddiana dananddiana (1469 days ago)

Did you miss the part where it say's "He refused to return to Iraq"?

My husband served for 23 years, the last 9 in Special Ops. He did his time in Iraq, it was horrible, it was WAR. But he would never ever have considered refusing to fulfill his service obligations.

There are too many "Moral objectors" Who become so as soon as they have to actually go and fight for their countries. There are many soldiers who are in the military / Special forces etc for many years but have not experienced actual combat.

Saying that he was experienced does NOT mean that he was experienced in actual combat.

He has the right to object, but not while under obligation to serve!

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Did you miss the part where it say's "He refused to return to Iraq"?

My husband served for 23 years, the last 9 in Special Ops. He did his time in Iraq, it was horrible, it was WAR. But he would never ever have considered refusing to fulfill his service obligations.

There are too many "Moral objectors" Who become so as soon as they have to actually go and fight for their countries. There are many soldiers who are in the military / Special forces etc for many years but have not experienced actual combat.

Saying that he was experienced does NOT mean that he was experienced in actual combat.

He has the right to object, but not while under obligation to serve!

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MyName MyName (1469 days ago)

Danandiana, I was merely putting some other views forward that your comment made me think of. You sound pretty upset but it wasn't an attack on you and you have put quite a lot of words in my mouth.

I have plenty of military friends and relatives, so I'm not anti-military. But brainwashing is a necessary part of training a combat troop. I can't think of another name for it. Desensitising?

You say there are too many "moral objectors". Without figures it's hard to say but I don't think there were that many. That's why it becomes a big news story when someone refuses to fight. I can think of no more than a handful in the past decade.

I'm pretty sure you won't get into special forces without combat experience.

And he is a former soldier, so under no obligation to return to combat, I doubt very much if the military would have him back anyway.

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Danandiana, I was merely putting some other views forward that your comment made me think of. You sound pretty upset but it wasn't an attack on you and you have put quite a lot of words in my mouth.

I have plenty of military friends and relatives, so I'm not anti-military. But brainwashing is a necessary part of training a combat troop. I can't think of another name for it. Desensitising?

You say there are too many "moral objectors". Without figures it's hard to say but I don't think there were that many. That's why it becomes a big news story when someone refuses to fight. I can think of no more than a handful in the past decade.

I'm pretty sure you won't get into special forces without combat experience.

And he is a former soldier, so under no obligation to return to combat, I doubt very much if the military would have him back anyway.

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dananddiana dananddiana (1469 days ago)

You are the second person who has said "You won't get into Special Forces without combat experience" I wonder where that misconception came from?.

Special Forces requires Special Forces training. It does not require previous combat!

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You are the second person who has said "You won't get into Special Forces without combat experience" I wonder where that misconception came from?.

Special Forces requires Special Forces training. It does not require previous combat!

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Guest: J H (1468 days ago)

Here is Benjamin Griffin's wiki page, it talks about his previous service and his glowing discharge.

You might find his account of US style soldiering interesting too.

LINK

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Here is Benjamin Griffin's wiki page, it talks about his previous service and his glowing discharge.

You might find his account of US style soldiering interesting too.

LINK

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Guest: justtrollin (1469 days ago)

To be fair, the US special forces are bigger than the whole of the UK army put together, so by necessity they have to be easy to get in. I think if you've been a traffic warden, you qualify for entry. (Not that there's anything wrong with traffic wardens).

But to get into the Royal Marines, the Paras or the SAS, you have to be the best of the best.

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To be fair, the US special forces are bigger than the whole of the UK army put together, so by necessity they have to be easy to get in. I think if you've been a traffic warden, you qualify for entry. (Not that there's anything wrong with traffic wardens).

But to get into the Royal Marines, the Paras or the SAS, you have to be the best of the best.

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dananddiana dananddiana (1469 days ago)

The USA Special Forces was based on the British SAS.

The entry requirements are the same. Neither require previous combat experience!

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The USA Special Forces was based on the British SAS.

The entry requirements are the same. Neither require previous combat experience!

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dananddiana dananddiana (1469 days ago)

BTW... I am not angry just a bit fed up with people who throw around words like "Brainwashed" when refering to military personel. Desensitized is a far mor accurate word. Without it they couldn't do their jobs.

I was not putting words into your mouth, I was asking you questions.

You would be surprised how many "Moral objectors" Find their way into Canada to avoid being deployed. They do not publish that sort of thing very often. This guy was more public about it. Most are not. It happens everytime people are deployed to war in Britain and the USA as well as other countries. Suddenly people who signed up and reaped the benifits of the Military, Training, Education, Health care etc, decide that they just cannot go and fight because it is against their "Moral code".

I believe EVERYONE has the right to their own opinion, I also believe that when you chose to sign a contract with your country (Or anyone else) you need to honor it to the end. That is what I call having a decent moral code. Fulfill your obligations!

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BTW... I am not angry just a bit fed up with people who throw around words like "Brainwashed" when refering to military personel. Desensitized is a far mor accurate word. Without it they couldn't do their jobs.

I was not putting words into your mouth, I was asking you questions.

You would be surprised how many "Moral objectors" Find their way into Canada to avoid being deployed. They do not publish that sort of thing very often. This guy was more public about it. Most are not. It happens everytime people are deployed to war in Britain and the USA as well as other countries. Suddenly people who signed up and reaped the benifits of the Military, Training, Education, Health care etc, decide that they just cannot go and fight because it is against their "Moral code".

I believe EVERYONE has the right to their own opinion, I also believe that when you chose to sign a contract with your country (Or anyone else) you need to honor it to the end. That is what I call having a decent moral code. Fulfill your obligations!

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dananddiana dananddiana (1469 days ago)

BTW... I am not angry just a bit fed up with people who throw around words like "Brainwashed" when refering to military personel. Desensitized is a far mor accurate word. Without it they couldn't do their jobs.

I was not putting words into your mouth, I was asking you questions.

You would be surprised how many "Moral objectors" Find their way into Canada to avoid being deployed. They do not publish that sort of thing very often. This guy was more public about it. Most are not. It happens everytime people are deployed to war in Britain and the USA as well as other countries. Suddenly people who signed up and reaped the benifits of the Military, Training, Education, Health care etc, decide that they just cannot go and fight because it is against their "Moral code".

I believe EVERYONE has the right to their own opinion, I also believe that when you chose to sign a contract with your country (Or anyone else) you need to honor it to the end. That is what I call having a decent moral code. Fulfill your obligations!

ReplyVote up (79)down (101)
Original comment

BTW... I am not angry just a bit fed up with people who throw around words like "Brainwashed" when refering to military personel. Desensitized is a far mor accurate word. Without it they couldn't do their jobs.

I was not putting words into your mouth, I was asking you questions.

You would be surprised how many "Moral objectors" Find their way into Canada to avoid being deployed. They do not publish that sort of thing very often. This guy was more public about it. Most are not. It happens everytime people are deployed to war in Britain and the USA as well as other countries. Suddenly people who signed up and reaped the benifits of the Military, Training, Education, Health care etc, decide that they just cannot go and fight because it is against their "Moral code".

I believe EVERYONE has the right to their own opinion, I also believe that when you chose to sign a contract with your country (Or anyone else) you need to honor it to the end. That is what I call having a decent moral code. Fulfill your obligations!

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Guest: wolf78 (1469 days ago)

an illegal war....

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an illegal war....

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Guest: wolf78 (1469 days ago)

an illegal war....

and ps: in professional armies, one does not become a special foces member without combat experience.

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an illegal war....

and ps: in professional armies, one does not become a special foces member without combat experience.

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dananddiana dananddiana (1469 days ago)

and PS: .... Calling it illegal does not make it so. It is just YOUR opinion!

BUT ..... My husband and hundreds of thousands of other serving military people defend your right to have it!

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and PS: .... Calling it illegal does not make it so. It is just YOUR opinion!

BUT ..... My husband and hundreds of thousands of other serving military people defend your right to have it!

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dananddiana dananddiana (1469 days ago)

I feel the need to ask you this ......

Why do you feel it nessessary to call serving military people "Brain washed"? Because they have a different opinion than you do?

Because they believe in fighting for their country and / or against atrocities in other countries?

Are you one of those who believe that everything is oil based?

Do you really think that honorable people who decide to put their lives on the line for what they believe is right are brainwashed?

What about all of the Iraqi people who praised the Allied Forces for coming into their country to help? What about the Kurds in Northern Iraq who said "You are the first armed forces we have EVER welcomed into our country"?

Just because all of the good things that happen don't make the news it doesn't mean they are not happening. The media is responsible for skewed reporting, always have and always will report whatever they feel is sensationalistic, whatever "Sells", It does not mean that their "news" is all their is! If you want fair info about what is going on, Go to a veterans center and talk to Veterans. Maybe then you will get a fair idea of what serving men and women think and feel. One man spouting off does NOT equal the "Truth"!

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I feel the need to ask you this ......

Why do you feel it nessessary to call serving military people "Brain washed"? Because they have a different opinion than you do?

Because they believe in fighting for their country and / or against atrocities in other countries?

Are you one of those who believe that everything is oil based?

Do you really think that honorable people who decide to put their lives on the line for what they believe is right are brainwashed?

What about all of the Iraqi people who praised the Allied Forces for coming into their country to help? What about the Kurds in Northern Iraq who said "You are the first armed forces we have EVER welcomed into our country"?

Just because all of the good things that happen don't make the news it doesn't mean they are not happening. The media is responsible for skewed reporting, always have and always will report whatever they feel is sensationalistic, whatever "Sells", It does not mean that their "news" is all their is! If you want fair info about what is going on, Go to a veterans center and talk to Veterans. Maybe then you will get a fair idea of what serving men and women think and feel. One man spouting off does NOT equal the "Truth"!

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Guest: Dick Johnson (1469 days ago)

i really think that honorable people who decide to put their lives on the line for what they believe is right, are NOT brainwashed. ALLAH AKBAR! BOOOOMMMM!! oh well, to each his own.

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i really think that honorable people who decide to put their lives on the line for what they believe is right, are NOT brainwashed. ALLAH AKBAR! BOOOOMMMM!! oh well, to each his own.

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dananddiana dananddiana (1469 days ago)

It is ..... Allahu Akbar if you want to quote it right.

And if you want to use extremist examples to back what you say... Go ahead. No point arguing with you!

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It is ..... Allahu Akbar if you want to quote it right.

And if you want to use extremist examples to back what you say... Go ahead. No point arguing with you!

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Guest: Dick Johnson (1468 days ago)

tisc tisc tisc luv. it's called reductio ad absurdum LINK . Correcting my spelling doesn't invalidate my point, you're still wrong.

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tisc tisc tisc luv. it's called reductio ad absurdum LINK . Correcting my spelling doesn't invalidate my point, you're still wrong.

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dananddiana dananddiana (1469 days ago)

It is ..... Allahu Akbar if you want to quote it right.

And if you want to use extremist examples to back what you say... Go ahead. No point arguing with you!

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It is ..... Allahu Akbar if you want to quote it right.

And if you want to use extremist examples to back what you say... Go ahead. No point arguing with you!

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Guest: Guesting (1469 days ago)

Hm. Two thoughts:

1. You seem to know little about human psychology (sometimes, probably too seldom, people can change their thoughts based on experience).

2. You are very aggressive when writing anonymously. I hope you are more well-behaved elsewhere. But please rememeber that the target of your bullying is a human being, even if you hide.

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Hm. Two thoughts:

1. You seem to know little about human psychology (sometimes, probably too seldom, people can change their thoughts based on experience).

2. You are very aggressive when writing anonymously. I hope you are more well-behaved elsewhere. But please rememeber that the target of your bullying is a human being, even if you hide.

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Guest: 987654321_0 (1468 days ago)

You would not be here in such a capacity if he wasn't right. You are a propagandist. One is desensitized to slaughter so effectively and brainwashed to think that one is defending the country.

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You would not be here in such a capacity if he wasn't right. You are a propagandist. One is desensitized to slaughter so effectively and brainwashed to think that one is defending the country.

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WellHungarian WellHungarian (1469 days ago)

I didn't know Jason Statham served in Iraq.

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I didn't know Jason Statham served in Iraq.

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