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Robert Anton Wilson on anarchism

Robert Anton Wilson on anarchism

(2:58) Robert Anton Wilson is an American author, psychologist, futurist and civil libertarian. From Wikipedia: "Wilson described his work as an "attempt to break down conditioned associations, to look at the world in a new way, with many models recognized as models or maps, and no one model elevated to the truth".

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Samsgimp Samsgimp (1377 days ago)

one of the sweetest, wisest, kindest, genuine, honest, intelligent, thought-provoking, illuminating, funniest, open-minded, generous, creative, concioussness-raising, mind-blowing human beings - ever - to walk this earth. Second only to the great A.C. IMHO.

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one of the sweetest, wisest, kindest, genuine, honest, intelligent, thought-provoking, illuminating, funniest, open-minded, generous, creative, concioussness-raising, mind-blowing human beings - ever - to walk this earth. Second only to the great A.C. IMHO.

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Guest: (1377 days ago)

Excuse me, but can you tell us who you mean by A.C.? Anti-Christ? Al Capone? Andy Capp? Who are you talking about? Please expound for the unenlightened.

\

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Excuse me, but can you tell us who you mean by A.C.? Anti-Christ? Al Capone? Andy Capp? Who are you talking about? Please expound for the unenlightened.

\

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Samsgimp Samsgimp (1377 days ago)
LINK not a 'regular' kinda guy.
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LINK not a 'regular' kinda guy.
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Guest: Bubs (1376 days ago)

Yes, mr crowley was so awesome. I like sodomy and heroin too.

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Yes, mr crowley was so awesome. I like sodomy and heroin too.

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Samsgimp Samsgimp (1376 days ago)

Obviously you don't and you should try it some time, not necessarily at the same time,... at least not for your first time. Don't knock anything until you try it....certainly on yourself initially and make sure you have the written consent of your subjects before you try it out on others,.

Hail Eris!, Hail Bob! Baaaa!

"DWTWSBTWOTL"

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Obviously you don't and you should try it some time, not necessarily at the same time,... at least not for your first time. Don't knock anything until you try it....certainly on yourself initially and make sure you have the written consent of your subjects before you try it out on others,.

Hail Eris!, Hail Bob! Baaaa!

"DWTWSBTWOTL"

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Guest: SS.ATM (1377 days ago)

isn't a contractual association also a form of government? who's going to enforce the terms of that contract if this for of association is not some sort of government? not all people are honest you know.

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isn't a contractual association also a form of government? who's going to enforce the terms of that contract if this for of association is not some sort of government? not all people are honest you know.

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MyName MyName (1375 days ago)

Those who do the right thing, do it not because of the rules but because they're doing the right thing.

Rules don't stop some people doing the wrong thing, so why would a lack of rules make people stop doing the right thing?

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Those who do the right thing, do it not because of the rules but because they're doing the right thing.

Rules don't stop some people doing the wrong thing, so why would a lack of rules make people stop doing the right thing?

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Guest: SS.ATM (1375 days ago)

rules do stop most people from doing the wrong thing.

The right thing differs from one society to another and it's based on the morality of that society. Morality is also relative. You can do the wrong thing without knwoing it just because you are in a different place with a different sense of morality. If there's no authority to regulate and control, we're back to lynching, and the people who do the lynching will think that it's the right thing to do.

To answer your question: human nature.

What do we do with those that that don't respect the rules if there's nobody to enforce them?

Even cengland0 ,the right wing libertarian, thinks that people should pay taxes to maintain the police and army. There are rules to paying taxes.

This contractual association thing is an ideea pulled out of people's asses.

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rules do stop most people from doing the wrong thing.

The right thing differs from one society to another and it's based on the morality of that society. Morality is also relative. You can do the wrong thing without knwoing it just because you are in a different place with a different sense of morality. If there's no authority to regulate and control, we're back to lynching, and the people who do the lynching will think that it's the right thing to do.

To answer your question: human nature.

What do we do with those that that don't respect the rules if there's nobody to enforce them?

Even cengland0 ,the right wing libertarian, thinks that people should pay taxes to maintain the police and army. There are rules to paying taxes.

This contractual association thing is an ideea pulled out of people's asses.

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MyName MyName (1375 days ago)
Latest comment:

We could be talking about the same thing from a different perspective, or maybe we're talking about totally different things. Because the right thing is subjective, depending on our own moral compass, and impossible to define.

Let me refine what I said.

The people who do the wrong thing , (or at least what most people in that situation would consider wrong), usually have no regard for the rules, so rules don't work for the people we're targeting. Those people will do that anyway.

And conversely, I don't think the people who tend to do 'the right thing' need the rules as much as many think, because of their moral compass.

People fear a lack of rules. Why is that?

Rules control us. You mentioned human nature. Are we so bad that we need controlling ? I fear being controlled more than I fear my fellow human's nature.

Is it fear of chaos? A small example: look at junctions and roundabouts if they take away the signs and lights. Improved traffic flow and safety. Take away the rules and common sense, human nature takes over.

And taxes: a power for good? Generally, if spent wisely. But who decides how they're spent? The same people who make the rules and give orders to the police and army. Hmm..

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Latest comment:

We could be talking about the same thing from a different perspective, or maybe we're talking about totally different things. Because the right thing is subjective, depending on our own moral compass, and impossible to define.

Let me refine what I said.

The people who do the wrong thing , (or at least what most people in that situation would consider wrong), usually have no regard for the rules, so rules don't work for the people we're targeting. Those people will do that anyway.

And conversely, I don't think the people who tend to do 'the right thing' need the rules as much as many think, because of their moral compass.

People fear a lack of rules. Why is that?

Rules control us. You mentioned human nature. Are we so bad that we need controlling ? I fear being controlled more than I fear my fellow human's nature.

Is it fear of chaos? A small example: look at junctions and roundabouts if they take away the signs and lights. Improved traffic flow and safety. Take away the rules and common sense, human nature takes over.

And taxes: a power for good? Generally, if spent wisely. But who decides how they're spent? The same people who make the rules and give orders to the police and army. Hmm..

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Guest: pragmaticonservative (1376 days ago)

So, would driving on the right be a contractual association? Could you opt out and drive on the left? And who would this contractual association be with? Every other road user? As soon as you start considering practicalities, this sort of libertarian thinking is revealed as being daft.

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So, would driving on the right be a contractual association? Could you opt out and drive on the left? And who would this contractual association be with? Every other road user? As soon as you start considering practicalities, this sort of libertarian thinking is revealed as being daft.

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MyName MyName (1375 days ago)

I don't think you're being fair in dismissing it as daft, so quickly.

I used to hold a very dim view of anarchists, I thought I met a few at a road protest many years ago, to me they just seemed violent, selfish, immature and petulant. They called themselves anarchists but I realise now, I don't think they knew what it really means. They just attached themselves to a cause and gave it a bad name.

Years later I met a true anarchist (there are many different types though) and we had a very interesting and long discussion, very thought provoking.

I didn't agree with everything he said and I felt very strongly against some of his ideals but he just very calmly answered everything I said. If you saw him on the street, you'd probably cross the road, so it was a bit of an eye-opener. He was thoroughly decent and kind.

Anarchism is a fascinating take on how we live now and could live.

For me, I think we have a lot of chains, some of them we accept without question until we don't see them. And like a prisoner in a cell, we can learn to fear the outside.

This guy didn't believe in rules and I believe his deep calmness was a result of feeling truly free. No rules doesn't necessarily mean petrol bombs and thuggery.

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I don't think you're being fair in dismissing it as daft, so quickly.

I used to hold a very dim view of anarchists, I thought I met a few at a road protest many years ago, to me they just seemed violent, selfish, immature and petulant. They called themselves anarchists but I realise now, I don't think they knew what it really means. They just attached themselves to a cause and gave it a bad name.

Years later I met a true anarchist (there are many different types though) and we had a very interesting and long discussion, very thought provoking.

I didn't agree with everything he said and I felt very strongly against some of his ideals but he just very calmly answered everything I said. If you saw him on the street, you'd probably cross the road, so it was a bit of an eye-opener. He was thoroughly decent and kind.

Anarchism is a fascinating take on how we live now and could live.

For me, I think we have a lot of chains, some of them we accept without question until we don't see them. And like a prisoner in a cell, we can learn to fear the outside.

This guy didn't believe in rules and I believe his deep calmness was a result of feeling truly free. No rules doesn't necessarily mean petrol bombs and thuggery.

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