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The Holy Quran Experiment

The Holy Quran Experiment

(3:30) Dutch vloggers 'Dit Is Normaal' test people's reactions to some particularly nasty passages from the Old Testament, under the guise of the Quran. youtube.com/user/DitIsNormaal

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Guest: one more time (738 days ago)

Actually, I only made the original post about the 10 Commandments in reply to "stipps." Stipps seemed to be arguing that the New Testament superseded the Old Testament and I wanted to show the implications of that argument, namely that if s/he throws out the OT then the 10C goes with it. Most Xians are not happy with that.

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Actually, I only made the original post about the 10 Commandments in reply to "stipps." Stipps seemed to be arguing that the New Testament superseded the Old Testament and I wanted to show the implications of that argument, namely that if s/he throws out the OT then the 10C goes with it. Most Xians are not happy with that.

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Guest: (737 days ago)

No one believes that. Jesus was supposed to bring a 'new way' and selected himself parts of the Old Testament to carry forward, but importantly brought in new material. It's the new material that Christ introduced that is the defining belief system of Christians... hence their name. You can basically reject the Old Testament in its entirity and still call yourself a Christian.

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No one believes that. Jesus was supposed to bring a 'new way' and selected himself parts of the Old Testament to carry forward, but importantly brought in new material. It's the new material that Christ introduced that is the defining belief system of Christians... hence their name. You can basically reject the Old Testament in its entirity and still call yourself a Christian.

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Guest: (737 days ago)

No. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. He verifies himself many times by reference to the OT. Jesus Himself said that not one dot of the Law of Yahweh (forget rabbinic law) was abolished in Him. Search online if you have no Bible.

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No. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. He verifies himself many times by reference to the OT. Jesus Himself said that not one dot of the Law of Yahweh (forget rabbinic law) was abolished in Him. Search online if you have no Bible.

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Guest: (737 days ago)

No to you too. Thank you for sharing your opinion though, that's interesting. Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament simply in that he was the godly salvation that it had promised. Elsewhere, he also makes a point of reviewing the Old Testament. The Exodus 'eye for eye' is quoted when Jesus says "You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person". Matthew 5:38-40 (you can find it on BibleGateway if you can't find your bible). Plenty more examples about divorce etc.

Ultimately, a Christian only needs to follow that which Christ explicitly taught - where that includes Old Testament, so be it, that's often not the case. If you feel the Old Testament is as relevant as the Gospels of Christ himself, then Judaism may be more your bag.

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No to you too. Thank you for sharing your opinion though, that's interesting. Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament simply in that he was the godly salvation that it had promised. Elsewhere, he also makes a point of reviewing the Old Testament. The Exodus 'eye for eye' is quoted when Jesus says "You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person". Matthew 5:38-40 (you can find it on BibleGateway if you can't find your bible). Plenty more examples about divorce etc.

Ultimately, a Christian only needs to follow that which Christ explicitly taught - where that includes Old Testament, so be it, that's often not the case. If you feel the Old Testament is as relevant as the Gospels of Christ himself, then Judaism may be more your bag.

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Guest: (737 days ago)

I've upset you. But, anyway, don't have faith in me but in Yahweh through His Christ, Jesus.

The Old Testament is not the exclusive preserve of judaism; far from it, talmudic judaism nullifies the Law of Yahweh with its own self worshipping customs/traditions, as Jesus told them.

The Ten Commandments still stand as a final response against evil.

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I've upset you. But, anyway, don't have faith in me but in Yahweh through His Christ, Jesus.

The Old Testament is not the exclusive preserve of judaism; far from it, talmudic judaism nullifies the Law of Yahweh with its own self worshipping customs/traditions, as Jesus told them.

The Ten Commandments still stand as a final response against evil.

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Guest: (737 days ago)

You've annoyed rather than upset me, stating things as fact that are your personal interpretations. Anyway, thank you for sharing your opinion on the 10 Commandments. I know many Christians that would disagree... in fact, they would say that as Christians their final response against evil are the commandments of Christ (explicitly not idenitical to those of Exodus) and in particular his two new commandments of Mat 22:37-40 which are not mentioned in the 10-C. But there we go, different opinions, same religion.

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You've annoyed rather than upset me, stating things as fact that are your personal interpretations. Anyway, thank you for sharing your opinion on the 10 Commandments. I know many Christians that would disagree... in fact, they would say that as Christians their final response against evil are the commandments of Christ (explicitly not idenitical to those of Exodus) and in particular his two new commandments of Mat 22:37-40 which are not mentioned in the 10-C. But there we go, different opinions, same religion.

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Guest: (737 days ago)

They are not my personal interpretations. The two new Commandments are summations of the Ten Commandments and as such are identical to Exodus. Jesus was and is asking for mercy only where it can be found in repentance and restitution from sin. His response about those who abuse His flock is that it would be better if a stone were tied around their neck and they were thrown in the sea. Murderers, usurers, sodomites will not find Heaven unless they repent.

I was being kind. I don't care if I have annoyed whoever you are.

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They are not my personal interpretations. The two new Commandments are summations of the Ten Commandments and as such are identical to Exodus. Jesus was and is asking for mercy only where it can be found in repentance and restitution from sin. His response about those who abuse His flock is that it would be better if a stone were tied around their neck and they were thrown in the sea. Murderers, usurers, sodomites will not find Heaven unless they repent.

I was being kind. I don't care if I have annoyed whoever you are.

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Guest: (736 days ago)

Thank you for explaining your interpretations further. Quite unusual interpretations too, to believe that 'Love the Lord your God' and 'Love your neighbour as yourself' is the summation of commandments such as 'Do not commit adultery'. Jesus refers to 'My commandments' in contrast to 'My father's commandments' many times (you can find it on BibleGateway) so it is clear to most Christians that they are not identical.

With your unusual take on what kindness is ('I don't care!), along with your cherry picking about about drowning sinners, I think you're rather far away from the gospel of love. I hope you find salvation.

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Thank you for explaining your interpretations further. Quite unusual interpretations too, to believe that 'Love the Lord your God' and 'Love your neighbour as yourself' is the summation of commandments such as 'Do not commit adultery'. Jesus refers to 'My commandments' in contrast to 'My father's commandments' many times (you can find it on BibleGateway) so it is clear to most Christians that they are not identical.

With your unusual take on what kindness is ('I don't care!), along with your cherry picking about about drowning sinners, I think you're rather far away from the gospel of love. I hope you find salvation.

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Guest: (736 days ago)

I'm perfectly happy to debate. My 'interpretations' are not unusual at all nor are they 'cherry picking'; my quotes do not lead to any man other than Jesus - they were said by Him.

'Love the Lord your God' and 'Love your neighbour as yourself ' fully equates with 'Do not commit adultery' and all other sins besides; do you seek a way around the Ten Commandments, that nullifies them ? The Commandments are identical.

Further, Jesus always justifies Himself in the Father, never merely in Himself (John 7: 16-18) and many other places.

Jesus warned of the Judgement of God/Yahweh at the same time as He sought mercy.

The Gospel of love does not come from the imagination of man (or woman for that matter) but from God/Yahweh alone.

I said 'I don't care' but I noted a sense of hostility in your reply. Forgive me if I am wrong.

I look forward to your reply. May you have a Blessed Christmas.

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I'm perfectly happy to debate. My 'interpretations' are not unusual at all nor are they 'cherry picking'; my quotes do not lead to any man other than Jesus - they were said by Him.

'Love the Lord your God' and 'Love your neighbour as yourself ' fully equates with 'Do not commit adultery' and all other sins besides; do you seek a way around the Ten Commandments, that nullifies them ? The Commandments are identical.

Further, Jesus always justifies Himself in the Father, never merely in Himself (John 7: 16-18) and many other places.

Jesus warned of the Judgement of God/Yahweh at the same time as He sought mercy.

The Gospel of love does not come from the imagination of man (or woman for that matter) but from God/Yahweh alone.

I said 'I don't care' but I noted a sense of hostility in your reply. Forgive me if I am wrong.

I look forward to your reply. May you have a Blessed Christmas.

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Guest: (735 days ago)

I believe it is unusual to claim that the commandments of Jesus were 'identical' to the 10 commandments of the Old Testament, and more generally it must be noted that the New Testament is distinctly different in both tone and content.

I don't seek a way of nullifying anything - I seek a way of focusing, and Jesus gives us that, and taking Christ's word and his interpretations over that which came before is the mark of a Christian. His commandments are the most important; 'the greatest and most foremost' as he put it. Have you ever worked on a Sunday or have you ever utilised the services of others not observing the rest day? Do you feel that such a commandment is as important to Christians as loving thy neighbour?

There are parts of the Old Testament that are contrary to the gospel of love which Jesus taught. He explicitly contrasts the former law of Moses (such as regarding divorce, tithes, harvest, regarding how to treat enemies, etc etc) with the new convenant that he brings.

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I believe it is unusual to claim that the commandments of Jesus were 'identical' to the 10 commandments of the Old Testament, and more generally it must be noted that the New Testament is distinctly different in both tone and content.

I don't seek a way of nullifying anything - I seek a way of focusing, and Jesus gives us that, and taking Christ's word and his interpretations over that which came before is the mark of a Christian. His commandments are the most important; 'the greatest and most foremost' as he put it. Have you ever worked on a Sunday or have you ever utilised the services of others not observing the rest day? Do you feel that such a commandment is as important to Christians as loving thy neighbour?

There are parts of the Old Testament that are contrary to the gospel of love which Jesus taught. He explicitly contrasts the former law of Moses (such as regarding divorce, tithes, harvest, regarding how to treat enemies, etc etc) with the new convenant that he brings.

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Guest: (735 days ago)

Again, Jesus doesn't testify by Himself but through the Father. He explicitly said that not a line or dot of the Law would ever be abolished. The Law as given to Moses was for a stiff necked, conceited people, who would look for any chance to invent laws of their own to turn away from God. God saw that that would happen. Jesus sought mercy while warning explicitly of the consequences of turning away from God. His commandments are the fulfillment of God's promise to His people, nothing added and nothing taken away. Jesus fulfilled the law about observing the day of rest by saying that if you are not forcing somebody to work but that they choose to do something from the goodness of their heart that is acceptable. I strive to do what is right but God will judge me If I have failed in this. As for divorce, the Old Law is less strict than Jesus's. Tithes and harvest are to be given from the heart rather than a basic percentage, but even then Jesus excoriates the Pharisees for their interpreting the Law as taking for themselves and giving nothing back to the poor. Yes there are parts of the OT that are contrary to God; the sacking of the peaceful town by the tribe of Dan, the connivance of the sons of Jacob, the deceptions of Jacob's uncle Laban, David's carnal betrayal of Uriah and many others...they show the evil of human nature without God, yet, like a ribbon through the many books and thousands of years, there is the mercy of God calling on His creation to repent. Explain which of the Ten Commandments you think has been discounted ?

Isaiah 55: 6 - 9

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Again, Jesus doesn't testify by Himself but through the Father. He explicitly said that not a line or dot of the Law would ever be abolished. The Law as given to Moses was for a stiff necked, conceited people, who would look for any chance to invent laws of their own to turn away from God. God saw that that would happen. Jesus sought mercy while warning explicitly of the consequences of turning away from God. His commandments are the fulfillment of God's promise to His people, nothing added and nothing taken away. Jesus fulfilled the law about observing the day of rest by saying that if you are not forcing somebody to work but that they choose to do something from the goodness of their heart that is acceptable. I strive to do what is right but God will judge me If I have failed in this. As for divorce, the Old Law is less strict than Jesus's. Tithes and harvest are to be given from the heart rather than a basic percentage, but even then Jesus excoriates the Pharisees for their interpreting the Law as taking for themselves and giving nothing back to the poor. Yes there are parts of the OT that are contrary to God; the sacking of the peaceful town by the tribe of Dan, the connivance of the sons of Jacob, the deceptions of Jacob's uncle Laban, David's carnal betrayal of Uriah and many others...they show the evil of human nature without God, yet, like a ribbon through the many books and thousands of years, there is the mercy of God calling on His creation to repent. Explain which of the Ten Commandments you think has been discounted ?

Isaiah 55: 6 - 9

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Guest: BB (735 days ago)

To fulfil can also mean to complete that which is incomplete, and to perfect that which is imperfect. When he says not a line or dot of the Law would ever be abolished, he is saying that it is the Father's law (not that of Moses) that will persist.

I have not said anywhere that the former law of Moses nor the 10 commandments were discounted or abolished. I am saying that the commandments Jesus brought were a new covenant (as he makes perfectly clear), were distinct, and that they were the most important.

Indeed, as for divorce Jesus said that it was never part of the Father's law and in effect it was an error of Moses to interpret it as a concession to those around him Matthew 19:8-9. As regards harvests and tithes, Jesus showed that parts of the law of Moses must be demoted to remain consistent with (and in preference of) other parts of the Father's law Matthew 23:22-24.

If you're a Christian, you should follow the teachings of Jesus Christ not of Moses. Where there is overlap, so be it, but as and when there are differences Christ is the priority.

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To fulfil can also mean to complete that which is incomplete, and to perfect that which is imperfect. When he says not a line or dot of the Law would ever be abolished, he is saying that it is the Father's law (not that of Moses) that will persist.

I have not said anywhere that the former law of Moses nor the 10 commandments were discounted or abolished. I am saying that the commandments Jesus brought were a new covenant (as he makes perfectly clear), were distinct, and that they were the most important.

Indeed, as for divorce Jesus said that it was never part of the Father's law and in effect it was an error of Moses to interpret it as a concession to those around him Matthew 19:8-9. As regards harvests and tithes, Jesus showed that parts of the law of Moses must be demoted to remain consistent with (and in preference of) other parts of the Father's law Matthew 23:22-24.

If you're a Christian, you should follow the teachings of Jesus Christ not of Moses. Where there is overlap, so be it, but as and when there are differences Christ is the priority.

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Guest: (735 days ago)
Latest comment:

I accept.

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Latest comment:

I accept.

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Guest: (738 days ago)

It's alright. The New Testament, in Jesus, is the fulfillment of the Old Testament.

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It's alright. The New Testament, in Jesus, is the fulfillment of the Old Testament.

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Guest: ALI786 (738 days ago)

MOSES WAS MENTIONED IN THE QURAN 308 TIMES (BY NAME) AND ADDRESSED/REFERRED TO - OVER A THOUSAND TIMES.
YOU MUST SEARCH FOR THE WORD: "MUSA" = MOSES.

YOU CAN SEARCH ANYWHERE, HERE IS A QUICK LINK TO SEARCH:

LINK

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MOSES WAS MENTIONED IN THE QURAN 308 TIMES (BY NAME) AND ADDRESSED/REFERRED TO - OVER A THOUSAND TIMES.
YOU MUST SEARCH FOR THE WORD: "MUSA" = MOSES.

YOU CAN SEARCH ANYWHERE, HERE IS A QUICK LINK TO SEARCH:

LINK

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Guest: (738 days ago)

Excellent

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Excellent

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Guest: DeIgrunt (735 days ago)

"the story of Moses" not just the mention of the name.

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"the story of Moses" not just the mention of the name.

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Guest: NickR (738 days ago)

For over 2,000 years man has argued over the meaning of the contents of a Holy book. And we're still doing it, often with horrific consequences . . .

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For over 2,000 years man has argued over the meaning of the contents of a Holy book. And we're still doing it, often with horrific consequences . . .

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Guest: Guesting (739 days ago)

Boreme: thanks for posting this video, I was hoping you would.

And what did the commentators here learn? Nothing, it seems. Sad.

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Boreme: thanks for posting this video, I was hoping you would.

And what did the commentators here learn? Nothing, it seems. Sad.

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Guest: (738 days ago)

Hello Guesting (I presume you are the same person who left recent comments about the German journalist). Are you a talmud noachide ?

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Hello Guesting (I presume you are the same person who left recent comments about the German journalist). Are you a talmud noachide ?

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Guest: stipps (739 days ago)

noob - therefore we got new testament

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noob - therefore we got new testament

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Guest: Drumbeat (739 days ago)

Would like to see them do the same thing with the koran, especially in an islamic country.

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Would like to see them do the same thing with the koran, especially in an islamic country.

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Guest: one more time (739 days ago)

I guess you don't accept the Ten Commandments then? Because it's Od Testament.

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I guess you don't accept the Ten Commandments then? Because it's Od Testament.

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ReligiousNut ReligiousNut (739 days ago)

Malachi 3:6 - "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."

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Malachi 3:6 - "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."

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Guest: ggg (739 days ago)

u sooooooo dumb

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u sooooooo dumb

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Guest: DeIgrunt (739 days ago)

Where are the 10 commandments in the Koran, the story of Moses is repeated like 39 times and yet ? I cannot find them in the koran. Please let me have the chapter and verse of their location in the koran. Epecially my least favourite one, "thou shalt not kill".

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Where are the 10 commandments in the Koran, the story of Moses is repeated like 39 times and yet ? I cannot find them in the koran. Please let me have the chapter and verse of their location in the koran. Epecially my least favourite one, "thou shalt not kill".

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ReligiousNut ReligiousNut (739 days ago)

Do you know where the 10 commandments are in the Christian bible? Most people think they do but they are usually wrong. They point to Deuteronomy 5 and Exodus 20.

The only time the "Ten Commandments" is mentioned in the Bible in the real text and not headings created by the translators, is in Exodus 34 where the commandments are listed as:

17 “You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal.

18 “You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

19 All that open the womb are mine, all your male[b]livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep.

20 The firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. And none shall appear before me empty-handed.

21 “Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest. In plowing time and in harvest you shall rest.

22 You shall observe the Feast of Weeks, the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year's end.

23 Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.

24 For I will cast out nations before you and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land, when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year.

25 “You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with anything leavened, or let the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover remain until the morning.

26 The best of the firstfruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God. You shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk.”

I challenge you and anyone else that reads this to prove me wrong that these are the actual 10 commandments that were written on the tablets. It clearly says so in this chapter but nowhere else in the Bible.

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Do you know where the 10 commandments are in the Christian bible? Most people think they do but they are usually wrong. They point to Deuteronomy 5 and Exodus 20.

The only time the "Ten Commandments" is mentioned in the Bible in the real text and not headings created by the translators, is in Exodus 34 where the commandments are listed as:

17 “You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal.

18 “You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

19 All that open the womb are mine, all your male[b]livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep.

20 The firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. And none shall appear before me empty-handed.

21 “Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest. In plowing time and in harvest you shall rest.

22 You shall observe the Feast of Weeks, the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year's end.

23 Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.

24 For I will cast out nations before you and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land, when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year.

25 “You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with anything leavened, or let the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover remain until the morning.

26 The best of the firstfruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God. You shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk.”

I challenge you and anyone else that reads this to prove me wrong that these are the actual 10 commandments that were written on the tablets. It clearly says so in this chapter but nowhere else in the Bible.

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Guest: Migo (739 days ago)

You've misunderstood something. The Ten Commandments are located in Exodus 20, and the Christian version are as quoted below (allowing for different translations). Numbers refer to verse, not commandment.

Exodus 20:1-17 (English Standard Version - ESV)

The Ten Commandments

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me. 4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lordyour God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands[b] of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lordblessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.[c]

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”

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You've misunderstood something. The Ten Commandments are located in Exodus 20, and the Christian version are as quoted below (allowing for different translations). Numbers refer to verse, not commandment.

Exodus 20:1-17 (English Standard Version - ESV)

The Ten Commandments

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me. 4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lordyour God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands[b] of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lordblessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.[c]

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”

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ReligiousNut ReligiousNut (739 days ago)

Look again. You will not see any reference to the tablets or the "10 commandments" in those scriptures other than the headings provided by the translators for the sole purpose of making it appear those are the actual 10 commandments but are really not. That text is not in the original bible.

If that was the actual 10 commandments, then you would find it hard to explain why the ones listed in Exodus 34 that mention they were put on the tablets with the words "The 10 Commandments" are different than those in Exodus 20.

In Exodus 34, it tells of the story of Moses going up into the mountain and breaking the tablets and then going back up and having them recreated with the same words that were on the first. Then it lists what was on them. At no time in Exodus 20 does it say anything about those words being on the tablets. It only mentions 1. "And God spoke all these words..."

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Original comment

Look again. You will not see any reference to the tablets or the "10 commandments" in those scriptures other than the headings provided by the translators for the sole purpose of making it appear those are the actual 10 commandments but are really not. That text is not in the original bible.

If that was the actual 10 commandments, then you would find it hard to explain why the ones listed in Exodus 34 that mention they were put on the tablets with the words "The 10 Commandments" are different than those in Exodus 20.

In Exodus 34, it tells of the story of Moses going up into the mountain and breaking the tablets and then going back up and having them recreated with the same words that were on the first. Then it lists what was on them. At no time in Exodus 20 does it say anything about those words being on the tablets. It only mentions 1. "And God spoke all these words..."

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Guest: (738 days ago)

Exodus 34: 1-9 Yahweh writes the same Commandments on the new stones.

Exodus 34:10-28 The full practical meaning for man of His Covenant with Israel.

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Exodus 34: 1-9 Yahweh writes the same Commandments on the new stones.

Exodus 34:10-28 The full practical meaning for man of His Covenant with Israel.

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Guest: (738 days ago)

They are repeated at Exodus 34 after Moses had to smash the original two stones engraved with the Commandments, when he found the tribes of Israel worshipping the golden calf. These are the replacement stones with the same Law of Yahweh.

Apart from which, what is it about Exodus 20 and its reiteration at Deuteronomy 5 that you think are not the Commandments of Yahweh ?

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They are repeated at Exodus 34 after Moses had to smash the original two stones engraved with the Commandments, when he found the tribes of Israel worshipping the golden calf. These are the replacement stones with the same Law of Yahweh.

Apart from which, what is it about Exodus 20 and its reiteration at Deuteronomy 5 that you think are not the Commandments of Yahweh ?

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ReligiousNut ReligiousNut (738 days ago)

I never said they aren't God's commandments. However, there were 10 of them inscribed on two tablets labeled "The 10 Commandments." Those are listed in Exodus 34 and no other place in the Bible. You can find hundreds (613 of them) in the Bible but the ones in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 are just a random set of 10 that people think are the 10 commandments from the tablets because there are about 10 listed there. There are disagreements on how those commandments are broken up because it's not clear on the 10.

Exmple. Some religions (Jewish Talmud) consider the first commandment to be, "I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

Others religions start out with "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" as the first commandment. Then, some will group "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" in with the first one and others will consider that a completely separate commandment.

As an exercise, take the list of commandments in Exodus 20 and try to break them up into 10. Here is the text. Now number them as you think they would represent 10 commandments. I want you to try this exercise so you can see that there are really more than 10 commandments listed there (and that God spoke them and not put them on the tablets at that time).

And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For min six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that theLord your God is giving you. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s. Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, and they stood far off and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.” Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin.” The people stood far off, while Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was. And the Lord said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the people of Israel: ‘You have seen for yourselves that I have talked with you from heaven. You shall not make gods of silver to be with me, nor shall you make for yourselves gods of gold. An altar of earth you shall make for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen. In every place where I cause my name to be remembered I will come to you and bless you. If you make me an altar of stone, you shall not build it of hewn stones, for if you wield your tool on it you profane it. And you shall not go up by steps to my altar, that your nakedness be not exposed on it.’

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Original comment

I never said they aren't God's commandments. However, there were 10 of them inscribed on two tablets labeled "The 10 Commandments." Those are listed in Exodus 34 and no other place in the Bible. You can find hundreds (613 of them) in the Bible but the ones in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 are just a random set of 10 that people think are the 10 commandments from the tablets because there are about 10 listed there. There are disagreements on how those commandments are broken up because it's not clear on the 10.

Exmple. Some religions (Jewish Talmud) consider the first commandment to be, "I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

Others religions start out with "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" as the first commandment. Then, some will group "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" in with the first one and others will consider that a completely separate commandment.

As an exercise, take the list of commandments in Exodus 20 and try to break them up into 10. Here is the text. Now number them as you think they would represent 10 commandments. I want you to try this exercise so you can see that there are really more than 10 commandments listed there (and that God spoke them and not put them on the tablets at that time).

And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For min six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that theLord your God is giving you. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s. Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, and they stood far off and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.” Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin.” The people stood far off, while Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was. And the Lord said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the people of Israel: ‘You have seen for yourselves that I have talked with you from heaven. You shall not make gods of silver to be with me, nor shall you make for yourselves gods of gold. An altar of earth you shall make for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen. In every place where I cause my name to be remembered I will come to you and bless you. If you make me an altar of stone, you shall not build it of hewn stones, for if you wield your tool on it you profane it. And you shall not go up by steps to my altar, that your nakedness be not exposed on it.’

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Guest: (738 days ago)

Your first example from (you say) the Jewish Talmud, by itself would be irrelevant without stating what the Commandment to man actually is.

What exactly is the point of haggling over whether there are, or are not, 'ten commandments' ? Read them in the Spirit they were meant to be understood.

In passing, do you set the 'oral law', that is, the 'torah sh' beal peh' above the 'Written Law' of Yahweh, the 'torah sh' bicht tav' ? ( spelling differences conceded).

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Your first example from (you say) the Jewish Talmud, by itself would be irrelevant without stating what the Commandment to man actually is.

What exactly is the point of haggling over whether there are, or are not, 'ten commandments' ? Read them in the Spirit they were meant to be understood.

In passing, do you set the 'oral law', that is, the 'torah sh' beal peh' above the 'Written Law' of Yahweh, the 'torah sh' bicht tav' ? ( spelling differences conceded).

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ReligiousNut ReligiousNut (738 days ago)

The point is to show the ignorance of the majority of the people who follow the Bible and think they know its contents. It is more complex than people think and just knowing something as simple as the 10 commandments confuses the majority of people. They think the 10 commandments are one thing when they are actually something different. Either they are brainwashed into thinking the wrong ones or the ones listed in Exodus 34 are very inconvenient so they prefer the verbal ones in Exodus 20. What is your theory on why people follow the ones in Exodus 20 instead of Exodus 34? Why do they also ignore the other 603 that are listed in the Bible?

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The point is to show the ignorance of the majority of the people who follow the Bible and think they know its contents. It is more complex than people think and just knowing something as simple as the 10 commandments confuses the majority of people. They think the 10 commandments are one thing when they are actually something different. Either they are brainwashed into thinking the wrong ones or the ones listed in Exodus 34 are very inconvenient so they prefer the verbal ones in Exodus 20. What is your theory on why people follow the ones in Exodus 20 instead of Exodus 34? Why do they also ignore the other 603 that are listed in the Bible?

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Guest: (738 days ago)

Who is this 'majority' of the people who 'think' they know the contents of the Bible ? What arrogance !

Yahweh's Commandments are crystal clear and immutable; no man has the right to change them or, still worse, deceive others about them.

Who is this 'they' who ignore the 603 other Commandments in the Bible ? - name them.

Or is it only the 'jews' who know them, who have a 'neshama' that understands the nature of Yahweh ?

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Original comment

Who is this 'majority' of the people who 'think' they know the contents of the Bible ? What arrogance !

Yahweh's Commandments are crystal clear and immutable; no man has the right to change them or, still worse, deceive others about them.

Who is this 'they' who ignore the 603 other Commandments in the Bible ? - name them.

Or is it only the 'jews' who know them, who have a 'neshama' that understands the nature of Yahweh ?

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Guest: DeIgrunt (738 days ago)

So you do not know whee they are in the koran, OK I understand.

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So you do not know whee they are in the koran, OK I understand.

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Guest: (735 days ago)

No problem. Surah 17:33: "And do not take any human being's life - that God willed to be sacred."

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No problem. Surah 17:33: "And do not take any human being's life - that God willed to be sacred."

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Guest: (738 days ago)

See ALI786 in this thread.

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See ALI786 in this thread.

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