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Bernie or Bust vs Hillary strategist

Bernie or Bust vs Hillary strategist

(5:34) According to a poll in early April, about 25% of Bernie Sanders supporters say they will not vote for Hillary Clinton if she's the Democratic nominee. Yahne Ndgo explains why she can't vote for Hillary.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (538 days ago)

Hillary supporters need to think hard - would they rather have Bernie or Trump as president. Bernie will almost definitely beat Trump. Hillary could well lose.

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Hillary supporters need to think hard - would they rather have Bernie or Trump as president. Bernie will almost definitely beat Trump. Hillary could well lose.

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Guest: (538 days ago)

Ahem - the free World, that should read.

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Ahem - the free World, that should read.

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Guest: (538 days ago)

The free wold can only hope......

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The free wold can only hope......

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Casey Casey (535 days ago)

You over estimate Bernie and underestimate Trump. Barring any unforeseen surprises I'd be surprised if Trump didn't win.

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You over estimate Bernie and underestimate Trump. Barring any unforeseen surprises I'd be surprised if Trump didn't win.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (535 days ago)

The polls consistently have Bernie beating Trump by a large margin. But I accept that polls are often wrong.

Trump can't attack Bernie for being an establishment politician, not like Hillary.

Trump can't attack Bernie for taking money from corporations, not like Hillary.

Trump can't claim Bernie will do the bidding for the 1 percenters, not like Hillary.

Trump can't claim Bernie is not "authentic", not like Hillary.

Trump can't attack Bernie over the Iraq war because he agrees with him, not like Hillary.

Trump can't hope that Bernie will get indicted, not like with Hillary if she hasn't already been indicted.

Bernie (and Hillary) know stuff, Trump doesn't. I can't wait for the debates, whoever is the Democratic nominee. Against either, but particularly against Bernie, Trump will just look like a chancer.

Bernie will get the most independents. Hillary won't because independents don't generally like the establishment, and although Trump is not establishment, he's too crazy.

The more people learn about Bernie, the more positive their view of him and democratic socialism - but with Trump and Hillary, it's the opposite, both are trailing Bernie in favourability polls.

So for those reasons, I think the polls are probably right - that Bernie would beat Trump by a substantial margin.

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The polls consistently have Bernie beating Trump by a large margin. But I accept that polls are often wrong.

Trump can't attack Bernie for being an establishment politician, not like Hillary.

Trump can't attack Bernie for taking money from corporations, not like Hillary.

Trump can't claim Bernie will do the bidding for the 1 percenters, not like Hillary.

Trump can't claim Bernie is not "authentic", not like Hillary.

Trump can't attack Bernie over the Iraq war because he agrees with him, not like Hillary.

Trump can't hope that Bernie will get indicted, not like with Hillary if she hasn't already been indicted.

Bernie (and Hillary) know stuff, Trump doesn't. I can't wait for the debates, whoever is the Democratic nominee. Against either, but particularly against Bernie, Trump will just look like a chancer.

Bernie will get the most independents. Hillary won't because independents don't generally like the establishment, and although Trump is not establishment, he's too crazy.

The more people learn about Bernie, the more positive their view of him and democratic socialism - but with Trump and Hillary, it's the opposite, both are trailing Bernie in favourability polls.

So for those reasons, I think the polls are probably right - that Bernie would beat Trump by a substantial margin.

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Casey Casey (535 days ago)

It's not about what Trump can or can't do to Bernie, it's about the record numbers of people coming out to support Trump. If Hillary gets the nomination even democrats are saying they won't vote for her. The countries broke, people are hurting, the young can't find jobs and Bernie promises them lots of free stuff....which comes from other people's money of course, which means higher taxes. I think the people are waking up to the fact that politicians make promises they can't keep and have had enough. It's not just America but world wide, there is a wide distrust and disdain for governments in general, Trump is something different, it's a vote against the establishment.

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It's not about what Trump can or can't do to Bernie, it's about the record numbers of people coming out to support Trump. If Hillary gets the nomination even democrats are saying they won't vote for her. The countries broke, people are hurting, the young can't find jobs and Bernie promises them lots of free stuff....which comes from other people's money of course, which means higher taxes. I think the people are waking up to the fact that politicians make promises they can't keep and have had enough. It's not just America but world wide, there is a wide distrust and disdain for governments in general, Trump is something different, it's a vote against the establishment.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (535 days ago)

Record number of people supporting Trump? Yes, but only within republicans.

According to the popular vote in the primaries, Hillary is beating Trump, who is beating Bernie. LINK Considering all the voter suppression stuff, and that some of the primaries were closed primaries, Bernie's popular vote would actually be much higher.

In the general election, if Bernie is the Democratic nominee, Hillary supporters will vote Bernie rather than Trump. Most independents will also vote Bernie, as well as many republicans. The Donald would be slaughtered.

Trump stands a much better chance against Hillary.

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Record number of people supporting Trump? Yes, but only within republicans.

According to the popular vote in the primaries, Hillary is beating Trump, who is beating Bernie. LINK Considering all the voter suppression stuff, and that some of the primaries were closed primaries, Bernie's popular vote would actually be much higher.

In the general election, if Bernie is the Democratic nominee, Hillary supporters will vote Bernie rather than Trump. Most independents will also vote Bernie, as well as many republicans. The Donald would be slaughtered.

Trump stands a much better chance against Hillary.

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Casey Casey (534 days ago)

You sound like one of those who, when he first entered the race, said he didn't stand a chance, and that's my whole point. His popularity is dumbfounding all the supposed "experts" who said he wouldn't last. We'll know come November.

the difference is Hillary is despised among a certain amount of liberals, Trump is despised among republican elites, and that's a good thing, but the populace obviously loves him.

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You sound like one of those who, when he first entered the race, said he didn't stand a chance, and that's my whole point. His popularity is dumbfounding all the supposed "experts" who said he wouldn't last. We'll know come November.

the difference is Hillary is despised among a certain amount of liberals, Trump is despised among republican elites, and that's a good thing, but the populace obviously loves him.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (534 days ago)

Trump's popularity has certainly been surprising, but it's still not as high as Hillary's or Bernie's. You can't ignore actual numbers.

Who do you think Trump would prefer to fight, Hillary or Bernie?

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Trump's popularity has certainly been surprising, but it's still not as high as Hillary's or Bernie's. You can't ignore actual numbers.

Who do you think Trump would prefer to fight, Hillary or Bernie?

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Guest: Thundercat (534 days ago)

Trump wouldn't stand a chance against Bernie.

He will kill Hillary in a debate, because she is totally flawed.

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Trump wouldn't stand a chance against Bernie.

He will kill Hillary in a debate, because she is totally flawed.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (534 days ago)

Yes, and Hillary supporters need to understand that by voting Hillary, we'll get Trump.

The Democratic debate has now changed. It's no longer about Wall Street, climate change, healthcare; foreign policy etc. - it's about who is best positioned to beat Trump. Don't risk it with Hillary, vote Bernie and make the case at the Democratic Convention to the super delegates.

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Yes, and Hillary supporters need to understand that by voting Hillary, we'll get Trump.

The Democratic debate has now changed. It's no longer about Wall Street, climate change, healthcare; foreign policy etc. - it's about who is best positioned to beat Trump. Don't risk it with Hillary, vote Bernie and make the case at the Democratic Convention to the super delegates.

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Casey Casey (534 days ago)

I don't think he would mind either one. Trump is the only one who's not part of the establishment and that's what this popular support for Bernie and himself is mostly about and Bernie is much more part of the establishment than trump. Plus elections are also popularity contest. Who are Americans going to vote for, an aged, establishment socialist promising just more of the same, an even more establishment old hag who no one trusts, or a politically incorrect business man who has real world experience and a personality to boot? Bernie has the idealistic young vote but I'm thinking people with a bit more history under their belt are looking for something new, something not connected to the establishment in any way and strong enough to push back against the deep state. Trump will negotiate with Putin etc. but Bernie will get pushed into war by the establishment he's been part of for most of his life.

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I don't think he would mind either one. Trump is the only one who's not part of the establishment and that's what this popular support for Bernie and himself is mostly about and Bernie is much more part of the establishment than trump. Plus elections are also popularity contest. Who are Americans going to vote for, an aged, establishment socialist promising just more of the same, an even more establishment old hag who no one trusts, or a politically incorrect business man who has real world experience and a personality to boot? Bernie has the idealistic young vote but I'm thinking people with a bit more history under their belt are looking for something new, something not connected to the establishment in any way and strong enough to push back against the deep state. Trump will negotiate with Putin etc. but Bernie will get pushed into war by the establishment he's been part of for most of his life.

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Guest: Hitchhiker (534 days ago)

Trump is an idiot, and if he is elected president, the united states will be the laughing stock of the world, if it isnt already.

Putin will chew him up like a toothpick,and the people who would vote for Trump do have a lot of history under their belt but nothing above their shoulders.

Trump is one of the ones who used to buy the establishment remember?,

he has a finger in every pot.

Bernie has never taken money in exchange for politial favours or paid for politcal favours and he is the only one who can say that.

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Trump is an idiot, and if he is elected president, the united states will be the laughing stock of the world, if it isnt already.

Putin will chew him up like a toothpick,and the people who would vote for Trump do have a lot of history under their belt but nothing above their shoulders.

Trump is one of the ones who used to buy the establishment remember?,

he has a finger in every pot.

Bernie has never taken money in exchange for politial favours or paid for politcal favours and he is the only one who can say that.

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Casey Casey (534 days ago)
Bernie has spent most of his life sucking off of the public tit, never had a real job, never created a single job. Trump is from the real world , Bernie only knows of govt. Handouts , he believes in big govt. Central control etc. We've had that for as long as most can remember. Time for something new.
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Bernie has spent most of his life sucking off of the public tit, never had a real job, never created a single job. Trump is from the real world , Bernie only knows of govt. Handouts , he believes in big govt. Central control etc. We've had that for as long as most can remember. Time for something new.
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Guest: Thundercat (533 days ago)

Sorry your wrong.

Trump is a tit who's only interest is trump.

I really hope Trump is elected and you get what you deserve.

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Sorry your wrong.

Trump is a tit who's only interest is trump.

I really hope Trump is elected and you get what you deserve.

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Casey Casey (533 days ago)

Sorry, you got it wrong, it's not what I deserve, I'm not American, I have no horse in this race, just observing what's happening. Having said that I'd rather have an American president that is not part of the establishment and is willing to talk and negotiate rather than go war. The simple fact is he didn't get where he is today by being a fool, to think otherwise is simplistic.

like you, but opposite, I'm hoping Bernie does get elected just so people with socialist tendencies learn the folly of their ways.

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Sorry, you got it wrong, it's not what I deserve, I'm not American, I have no horse in this race, just observing what's happening. Having said that I'd rather have an American president that is not part of the establishment and is willing to talk and negotiate rather than go war. The simple fact is he didn't get where he is today by being a fool, to think otherwise is simplistic.

like you, but opposite, I'm hoping Bernie does get elected just so people with socialist tendencies learn the folly of their ways.

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Guest: (533 days ago)

You're a fool. Bernie has worked as a carpenter, writer, researcher, but more importantly has always had an interest in politics.

Meanwhile, Trump was born into money. He has no idea what struggle is. He is only where is he thanks to massive loans from Daddy, has only ever "worked" in the corporate world and has the political experience of a kiwi fruit.

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You're a fool. Bernie has worked as a carpenter, writer, researcher, but more importantly has always had an interest in politics.

Meanwhile, Trump was born into money. He has no idea what struggle is. He is only where is he thanks to massive loans from Daddy, has only ever "worked" in the corporate world and has the political experience of a kiwi fruit.

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Casey Casey (533 days ago)

Hardly, he was very poor at all those things you mention, couldn't hold down a job to save himself....or his family. Of course read Marx, Lenin and Trotsy which should tell you a lot. He didn’t collect his first steady paycheck until he was an elected official pushing 40 years old.

Trump was born into money and he did start out with a loan from his father but that is only a pittance to what he turned it into. He's written several best selling books on business, negotiation etc. he's nobody's fool, only a fool would think that, or a clueless liberal listening to MSLM .

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Hardly, he was very poor at all those things you mention, couldn't hold down a job to save himself....or his family. Of course read Marx, Lenin and Trotsy which should tell you a lot. He didn’t collect his first steady paycheck until he was an elected official pushing 40 years old.

Trump was born into money and he did start out with a loan from his father but that is only a pittance to what he turned it into. He's written several best selling books on business, negotiation etc. he's nobody's fool, only a fool would think that, or a clueless liberal listening to MSLM .

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Guest: (533 days ago)

I can only find one source claiming Bernie wasn't good at carpentry - what are your other impartial sources? From looking at his career, it seems like he is highly educated and academic, with an ability to talk to people, a diverse spread of skills and jobs, and crucially has a lengthy experience of politics. None of those could be said of Trump.

Richboy Trump, with his 'small loans' of millions of dollars from his daddy and brothers, has been a desk jockey all his life, privileged and sheltered, and has only ever worked in the corporate world. He has no idea how to start from scratch, how to earn a living without handouts from his wealthy capitalist family. He has no idea what it's like for the normal worker. He is unacademic, startlingly unintelligent, cannot relate to any range of people, and has literally no political experience at all. POTUS is a political position, haven't you noticed? He is everybody's fool, apart from those gullible enough not to be able to see through his sloganeering and TV personality.

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I can only find one source claiming Bernie wasn't good at carpentry - what are your other impartial sources? From looking at his career, it seems like he is highly educated and academic, with an ability to talk to people, a diverse spread of skills and jobs, and crucially has a lengthy experience of politics. None of those could be said of Trump.

Richboy Trump, with his 'small loans' of millions of dollars from his daddy and brothers, has been a desk jockey all his life, privileged and sheltered, and has only ever worked in the corporate world. He has no idea how to start from scratch, how to earn a living without handouts from his wealthy capitalist family. He has no idea what it's like for the normal worker. He is unacademic, startlingly unintelligent, cannot relate to any range of people, and has literally no political experience at all. POTUS is a political position, haven't you noticed? He is everybody's fool, apart from those gullible enough not to be able to see through his sloganeering and TV personality.

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Casey Casey (533 days ago)

“The electricity was turned off a lot,” Barnett said. “I remember him running an extension cord down to the basement. He couldn’t pay his bills.”

He worked some as a carpenter, although “he was a shitty carpenter,” Bloch told me. “His carpentry,” Morrisseau said, “was not going to support him, and didn’t.”

He worked as a freelance writer, putting intermittent pieces in the low-budget Vermont Freeman, a Burlington alternative weekly called the Vanguard Press and a glossy, state-supported magazine called Vermont Life.

The standards of the Freeman were not strict. "It was a jumbled rant about gender roles that mentioned masturbation and rape, but even in Sanders’ commentary on the sexes he reverted to his central theme of injustice: “Slavishness on one hand breeds pigness on the other hand. Pigness on one hand breeds slavishness on the other.”

LINK

Carpenter, writer, researcher...yeah right! Is that your idea of a distinguished career? Now I see where you're coming from and why you're voting for Bernie....and you think republicans are gullible?

you say about Trump he's everybody's fool but millions are voting for him, they can't all be fools, you'd be more the fool for thinking so. Have you written any best sellers on business recently? No, I didn't think so. You're another socialist type that objects to people being successful yet have worked all your life, if you have ever worked, in a company run by the very people you despise but can't see the irony. The one who is gullible and can't see is you! You say he's "unacademic" , that's a good thing, people are sick of academics with no real experience...but Bernies got a degree! Whoop de do! You say Trump has no political experience! That's why people are voting for him! They're sick of the establishment, the status quo. Could he do worse than Hillary or Obama? I doubt it. People want change, and they want a leader, Bernie is just an old establishment socialist, peddling class envy to those too stupid to see otherwise and have their hands out for more free stuff. People, even liberals, are smarter than that these days which is why Hillary is leading even among liberals.

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“The electricity was turned off a lot,” Barnett said. “I remember him running an extension cord down to the basement. He couldn’t pay his bills.”

He worked some as a carpenter, although “he was a shitty carpenter,” Bloch told me. “His carpentry,” Morrisseau said, “was not going to support him, and didn’t.”

He worked as a freelance writer, putting intermittent pieces in the low-budget Vermont Freeman, a Burlington alternative weekly called the Vanguard Press and a glossy, state-supported magazine called Vermont Life.

The standards of the Freeman were not strict. "It was a jumbled rant about gender roles that mentioned masturbation and rape, but even in Sanders’ commentary on the sexes he reverted to his central theme of injustice: “Slavishness on one hand breeds pigness on the other hand. Pigness on one hand breeds slavishness on the other.”

LINK

Carpenter, writer, researcher...yeah right! Is that your idea of a distinguished career? Now I see where you're coming from and why you're voting for Bernie....and you think republicans are gullible?

you say about Trump he's everybody's fool but millions are voting for him, they can't all be fools, you'd be more the fool for thinking so. Have you written any best sellers on business recently? No, I didn't think so. You're another socialist type that objects to people being successful yet have worked all your life, if you have ever worked, in a company run by the very people you despise but can't see the irony. The one who is gullible and can't see is you! You say he's "unacademic" , that's a good thing, people are sick of academics with no real experience...but Bernies got a degree! Whoop de do! You say Trump has no political experience! That's why people are voting for him! They're sick of the establishment, the status quo. Could he do worse than Hillary or Obama? I doubt it. People want change, and they want a leader, Bernie is just an old establishment socialist, peddling class envy to those too stupid to see otherwise and have their hands out for more free stuff. People, even liberals, are smarter than that these days which is why Hillary is leading even among liberals.

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Mesmerelda Mesmerelda (533 days ago)

Jesus was also a shitty carpenter.

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Jesus was also a shitty carpenter.

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Guest: Thundercat (533 days ago)

Just exactly was Jesus supposed to be a carpenter of--sand?

Since the great cedar forests of lebonon had been chopped down before he was born and practically everything was made of stone or mud brick, where

do you suppose he got his wood from?

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Just exactly was Jesus supposed to be a carpenter of--sand?

Since the great cedar forests of lebonon had been chopped down before he was born and practically everything was made of stone or mud brick, where

do you suppose he got his wood from?

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Guest: (533 days ago)

Jechill, you're an idiot. If you don't think there were trees growing in Northern Israel in the time of Jesus, seriously, you're an idiot.

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Jechill, you're an idiot. If you don't think there were trees growing in Northern Israel in the time of Jesus, seriously, you're an idiot.

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Guest: Thundercat (533 days ago)

Nope most were gone by the time He came around.

Maybe he made furniture but i doubt it.

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Nope most were gone by the time He came around.

Maybe he made furniture but i doubt it.

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Guest: (532 days ago)

Out of interest, do you honestly think there were no trees in Northern Israel 2000 years ago? Really? I just need to see if you're trolling.

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Out of interest, do you honestly think there were no trees in Northern Israel 2000 years ago? Really? I just need to see if you're trolling.

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Guest: Thundercat (532 days ago)

LINK

Isreal reforestation.

All cut down first by the romns then the ottoman empire.

really you people need to learn to read.

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LINK

Isreal reforestation.

All cut down first by the romns then the ottoman empire.

really you people need to learn to read.

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Guest: (532 days ago)

Umm. I don't mean to be pedantic, but where on that link does it say anything about the Romans? I hardly think the Ottomans are relevant as they only rocked up a millenium or so after the time we're talking about. The closest I get is:

"In the 19th Century and up to World War I, the Ottoman empire cleared the land of Israel of its natural reserves of pine and oak trees, in order to build railways across the empire.[ citation needed ]" - I'm pretty sure Jesus was supposed to be around a wee bit before the 19th century and the Ottomans too. Of course there was Roman deforestation, but you're saying that there were no trees in 'Isreal' even by Jesus' time right? What a bizarre hypothesis. I wonder how you think they made wheels. Or houses. Or boats. Or dates. Or olives, or pine nuts or figs or wine. Enlighten me, this'll be good.

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Umm. I don't mean to be pedantic, but where on that link does it say anything about the Romans? I hardly think the Ottomans are relevant as they only rocked up a millenium or so after the time we're talking about. The closest I get is:

"In the 19th Century and up to World War I, the Ottoman empire cleared the land of Israel of its natural reserves of pine and oak trees, in order to build railways across the empire.[ citation needed ]" - I'm pretty sure Jesus was supposed to be around a wee bit before the 19th century and the Ottomans too. Of course there was Roman deforestation, but you're saying that there were no trees in 'Isreal' even by Jesus' time right? What a bizarre hypothesis. I wonder how you think they made wheels. Or houses. Or boats. Or dates. Or olives, or pine nuts or figs or wine. Enlighten me, this'll be good.

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Guest: Thundercat (532 days ago)

yep

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yep

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Guest: Thundercat (533 days ago)

Plus the translation was wrong. Jesus, like his dad ,Joseph, was in fact a handy man.

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Plus the translation was wrong. Jesus, like his dad ,Joseph, was in fact a handy man.

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Guest: (533 days ago)

OK, but please let's not start talking about Jesus getting wood. There are some things I really don't need to know about other men.

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OK, but please let's not start talking about Jesus getting wood. There are some things I really don't need to know about other men.

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Guest: Thundercat (532 days ago)

lmao

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lmao

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Guest: (533 days ago)

Yes, that's the same quote I found. Every article I've seen that is trying to make the same point only refers to the same quote. Any other quotes, or are you happy to accept just the one as impartial corroboration? I think I know the answer to that.

I never said anything about a distinguished career. Learn to read and concentrate. Here, have another go: I said "from looking at his career, it seems like he is highly educated and academic, with an ability to talk to people, a diverse spread of skills and jobs". None of that can be said of Trump. 'No real experience'? We're talking politics here, and Bernie's had more experience in pretty much any single year of his adult life than Trump has had in a lifetime. Literally. Don't you see that? My dentist has been a dentist for nearly 40 years. He's a great dentist. But would be make an experienced president? Hell no, because experience in just one narrow non-political field counts for very little when it comes to being a president.

Millions of people can't be fools? Do you really believe that? Jesus. No wonder you think someone who has survived from millions of dollars of hand-outs is a success story, someone who has only ever been on the same corporate treadmill without ever having to learn anything from scratch. Maybe you got by with hand-outs from Daddy too? Did your siblings have to bail you out a few times as well? So much for the people that 'have their hands out for more free stuff', as you put it. You think a lack of education and political experience is a good thing for a president. You think a lack of intelligence is a bonus - yeah it's definitely a change from Obama! I'm sure he makes you feel better about your jingoism and xenophobic stereotyping, about your lack own lack of education, and perhaps you find it refreshing how someone can get away with public prejudice, but those aren't the qualities of a genuine political leader. You should try and separate qualities that make you feel better about yourself, and qualities that will lead your country in a successful way.

You don't make sense Casey. You contradict yourself all over the shop, talking about lack of experience and people wanting hand-outs, while supporting Trump who has no experience and has survived on millions of dollars of hand-outs. You are proof that at least a large proportion of Trump voters are doing it out of ignorance - because they fundamentally misunderstand certain objective facts, or they cannot follow a simple rational argument, or they are under educated, gullible or non-political enough to be attracted by populist TV posturing. Thankfully, even somewhere like the USA, your type are outnumbered.

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Original comment

Yes, that's the same quote I found. Every article I've seen that is trying to make the same point only refers to the same quote. Any other quotes, or are you happy to accept just the one as impartial corroboration? I think I know the answer to that.

I never said anything about a distinguished career. Learn to read and concentrate. Here, have another go: I said "from looking at his career, it seems like he is highly educated and academic, with an ability to talk to people, a diverse spread of skills and jobs". None of that can be said of Trump. 'No real experience'? We're talking politics here, and Bernie's had more experience in pretty much any single year of his adult life than Trump has had in a lifetime. Literally. Don't you see that? My dentist has been a dentist for nearly 40 years. He's a great dentist. But would be make an experienced president? Hell no, because experience in just one narrow non-political field counts for very little when it comes to being a president.

Millions of people can't be fools? Do you really believe that? Jesus. No wonder you think someone who has survived from millions of dollars of hand-outs is a success story, someone who has only ever been on the same corporate treadmill without ever having to learn anything from scratch. Maybe you got by with hand-outs from Daddy too? Did your siblings have to bail you out a few times as well? So much for the people that 'have their hands out for more free stuff', as you put it. You think a lack of education and political experience is a good thing for a president. You think a lack of intelligence is a bonus - yeah it's definitely a change from Obama! I'm sure he makes you feel better about your jingoism and xenophobic stereotyping, about your lack own lack of education, and perhaps you find it refreshing how someone can get away with public prejudice, but those aren't the qualities of a genuine political leader. You should try and separate qualities that make you feel better about yourself, and qualities that will lead your country in a successful way.

You don't make sense Casey. You contradict yourself all over the shop, talking about lack of experience and people wanting hand-outs, while supporting Trump who has no experience and has survived on millions of dollars of hand-outs. You are proof that at least a large proportion of Trump voters are doing it out of ignorance - because they fundamentally misunderstand certain objective facts, or they cannot follow a simple rational argument, or they are under educated, gullible or non-political enough to be attracted by populist TV posturing. Thankfully, even somewhere like the USA, your type are outnumbered.

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Guest: Thundercat (533 days ago)

Trump is an idiot and yes he has fooled millions of people into liking him, so did adolf hitler.

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Trump is an idiot and yes he has fooled millions of people into liking him, so did adolf hitler.

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Casey Casey (533 days ago)

So you're not willing to take the word of people who actually knew Sanders at the time and have been quoted on him? In other words you believe what you want to believe regardless of the facts, real intelligent! And so you believe that everyone that votes for Trump must be a fool, how stupid and arrogant can you be! As for being unacademic real world experience Trumps that every time, who do you want running the country, a guy who couldn't hold down a job to save himself or his family and had to work in the public sector to get a regular wage or a guy who does business all over the world, rubs shoulders with heads of state, writes best selling books on business etc. ? And you cry "he's unacademic"! Pulease! Enough said.

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Original comment

So you're not willing to take the word of people who actually knew Sanders at the time and have been quoted on him? In other words you believe what you want to believe regardless of the facts, real intelligent! And so you believe that everyone that votes for Trump must be a fool, how stupid and arrogant can you be! As for being unacademic real world experience Trumps that every time, who do you want running the country, a guy who couldn't hold down a job to save himself or his family and had to work in the public sector to get a regular wage or a guy who does business all over the world, rubs shoulders with heads of state, writes best selling books on business etc. ? And you cry "he's unacademic"! Pulease! Enough said.

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Guest: (532 days ago)

Your comment explains an awful lot. If you want to establish something as a fact, you don't look for a single opinion. Well maybe you do, but anyone with any integrity or inquisitive intellect doesn't. It doesn't matter whether that person did or didn't know him - it's a given part of investigative journalism that you have more than one source. But no, you have found something that confirms what you want to believe, so you won't check it, you won't corroborate it, you'll call it a 'fact'. Cute. In other words, you are spoon-fed one opinion as fact and you don't have the nouse to check it out. That's why you support Trump - you don't have the intellectual curiosity to check things that you are told.

You think living in the 'real world' means being worth over a million dollars before you even graduate. You think that 'real world experience' means working on a single corporate stream your whole life, never having to earn your own money from zero, being given jobs by your family, being constantly bailed out by Daddy and your siblings. Maybe that is the world that you live in, maybe you have survived in your work thanks to hand-outs, but in the real world most people basically start from nothing like Sanders and the rest of us. Maybe you want to have a president who has to run to others to assist them, like Trump has had to do his whole career. Maybe he can bankrupt America like his 4 previous bankruptcies.

Yes, I believe that everyone who votes for Trump is a fool, because voting for someone like that is a foolish thing to do. That's no more arrogant that saying everyone that crosses a road without looking is a fool. It's well known that Trump does particularly well among those with lower levels of education, something he actively supports, and with your 'one person said it so it must be true' approach, you're absolutely encouraging that belief.

It's obvious to the rest of the world too that Trump has no relevant experience, has no idea of the real world, has no clue about how the majority of working Americans have to live. He is pumped full of populist jingoism and right wing bluster, not a glimmer of workable policy or political diplomacy, and it's tragic that some people can't see through it.

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Original comment

Your comment explains an awful lot. If you want to establish something as a fact, you don't look for a single opinion. Well maybe you do, but anyone with any integrity or inquisitive intellect doesn't. It doesn't matter whether that person did or didn't know him - it's a given part of investigative journalism that you have more than one source. But no, you have found something that confirms what you want to believe, so you won't check it, you won't corroborate it, you'll call it a 'fact'. Cute. In other words, you are spoon-fed one opinion as fact and you don't have the nouse to check it out. That's why you support Trump - you don't have the intellectual curiosity to check things that you are told.

You think living in the 'real world' means being worth over a million dollars before you even graduate. You think that 'real world experience' means working on a single corporate stream your whole life, never having to earn your own money from zero, being given jobs by your family, being constantly bailed out by Daddy and your siblings. Maybe that is the world that you live in, maybe you have survived in your work thanks to hand-outs, but in the real world most people basically start from nothing like Sanders and the rest of us. Maybe you want to have a president who has to run to others to assist them, like Trump has had to do his whole career. Maybe he can bankrupt America like his 4 previous bankruptcies.

Yes, I believe that everyone who votes for Trump is a fool, because voting for someone like that is a foolish thing to do. That's no more arrogant that saying everyone that crosses a road without looking is a fool. It's well known that Trump does particularly well among those with lower levels of education, something he actively supports, and with your 'one person said it so it must be true' approach, you're absolutely encouraging that belief.

It's obvious to the rest of the world too that Trump has no relevant experience, has no idea of the real world, has no clue about how the majority of working Americans have to live. He is pumped full of populist jingoism and right wing bluster, not a glimmer of workable policy or political diplomacy, and it's tragic that some people can't see through it.

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Casey Casey (532 days ago)

You contradict yourself too much to take anything you write seriously in a pathetic attempt to make an argument. Okay then, find me the source that says Sanders was a great carpenter, a great writer etc....otherwise until you do I'll take the word of a couple of eye witnesses, but ask yourself if he was a successful builder or writer why he couldn't pay his bills or why he lived in a house with a dirt floor? So, about your contradictions, you talk about integrity, single source opinions and intellectual curiosity then say something so stupid like " it's obvious to the rest of the world he has no relevant experience, no idea of the "real world" etc. etc. with absolutely no way of proving any of that other than liberal media hit pieces you so obviously believe in with no real facts what so ever. Your idea of the "real world" is what exactly ? That is a completely arbitrary concept depending on what reality you're in. You're reality is one where the govt. is needed to look after you from cradle to grave, sorry, that's not my or the vast majority of people's reality. Are you seriously saying that Trumps idea of starting a dialogue with Putin instead of threatening him is not good political diplomacy? Can you see by that simple fact alone that paints you either as a backer of Hillary, Linsay Graham, McCain etc. or you just paint Trump and anything he says as stupid without the proof a moment ago you accused me of! Talk of hypocrisy! Your left wing progressive ideology is blinding you...you should be voting for Hillary, your just too fooled into "feeling the Bern" to realise it.

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Original comment

You contradict yourself too much to take anything you write seriously in a pathetic attempt to make an argument. Okay then, find me the source that says Sanders was a great carpenter, a great writer etc....otherwise until you do I'll take the word of a couple of eye witnesses, but ask yourself if he was a successful builder or writer why he couldn't pay his bills or why he lived in a house with a dirt floor? So, about your contradictions, you talk about integrity, single source opinions and intellectual curiosity then say something so stupid like " it's obvious to the rest of the world he has no relevant experience, no idea of the "real world" etc. etc. with absolutely no way of proving any of that other than liberal media hit pieces you so obviously believe in with no real facts what so ever. Your idea of the "real world" is what exactly ? That is a completely arbitrary concept depending on what reality you're in. You're reality is one where the govt. is needed to look after you from cradle to grave, sorry, that's not my or the vast majority of people's reality. Are you seriously saying that Trumps idea of starting a dialogue with Putin instead of threatening him is not good political diplomacy? Can you see by that simple fact alone that paints you either as a backer of Hillary, Linsay Graham, McCain etc. or you just paint Trump and anything he says as stupid without the proof a moment ago you accused me of! Talk of hypocrisy! Your left wing progressive ideology is blinding you...you should be voting for Hillary, your just too fooled into "feeling the Bern" to realise it.

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Guest: (532 days ago)

You're really not getting it. Where did I suggest 'Sanders was a great carpenter'? You need to start reading what I write, rather than pretending I'm arguing the only point you feel you can defeat. I have no idea how good he was at carpentry, you're the one who claims to know based on a single unverified source you have found. Very reasonable(!). What I would repeat, is that actually it doesn't matter how good someone is at carpentry or corporate business or neuroscience. Politics is different, obviously, and Bernie (in fact anyone) has more experience than Trump. I don't see how you can possibly deny that.

And now you criticise the idea of the 'real world', despite the fact that you mentioned it in 3 separate posts before I even commented to you. This is what I mean about you contradicting yourself and tying yourself in knots. But seeing as you asked, my ideal of the real world is NOT when someone is born into a ridiculously privileged position, someone who never had to work from nothing, and who got personal fortunes handed to him by his family on multiple occasions. If that is your personal reality, or your idea of the 'real world' as you call it, then you have no idea how most people live either.

You can't claim Trump is good at political diplomacy because of his embryonic relationship with a single foreign power. You have to look at his attitudes as a whole. Someone who comes out with gems like "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese", and "The wall will go up and Mexico will start behaving", and "I would bomb the sh-- out of them", and someone asking for "total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" could not be described as politically diplomatic. It's not what those words mean; perhaps you mean something else.

I'm afraid the way you write - your grammatical 'tells' - along with your inability to follow quite a simple line of reasoning confirms what many people suspect about the types of people who are swayed by Trump style politics. An issue with education perhaps - not in all cases, but certainly in some if not most. It's amusing to see the assumptions you've made about me, simply on account of me saying Sanders is more politically experienced than Trump. According to you I'm a left wing progressive; I'm a backer of Graham and McCain, Republicans; I'm a backer of Hillary and Bernie, Democrats; I'm a liberal. This is precisely the sort of clumsy presumptious rhetoric and name-calling that Trump feeds you, and here you are regurgitating it at anyone who you find threatening - trying to condense the opposition into a small, neat category. I've never voted Liberal in my life and hold no brief for the politicians you mentioned. Incredulity at the rise of Trump seems to be spanning nationalities, cultures, and even political stances. Still, you seem more comfortable pretending I am someone else to suit your argument, so go ahead.

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Original comment

You're really not getting it. Where did I suggest 'Sanders was a great carpenter'? You need to start reading what I write, rather than pretending I'm arguing the only point you feel you can defeat. I have no idea how good he was at carpentry, you're the one who claims to know based on a single unverified source you have found. Very reasonable(!). What I would repeat, is that actually it doesn't matter how good someone is at carpentry or corporate business or neuroscience. Politics is different, obviously, and Bernie (in fact anyone) has more experience than Trump. I don't see how you can possibly deny that.

And now you criticise the idea of the 'real world', despite the fact that you mentioned it in 3 separate posts before I even commented to you. This is what I mean about you contradicting yourself and tying yourself in knots. But seeing as you asked, my ideal of the real world is NOT when someone is born into a ridiculously privileged position, someone who never had to work from nothing, and who got personal fortunes handed to him by his family on multiple occasions. If that is your personal reality, or your idea of the 'real world' as you call it, then you have no idea how most people live either.

You can't claim Trump is good at political diplomacy because of his embryonic relationship with a single foreign power. You have to look at his attitudes as a whole. Someone who comes out with gems like "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese", and "The wall will go up and Mexico will start behaving", and "I would bomb the sh-- out of them", and someone asking for "total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" could not be described as politically diplomatic. It's not what those words mean; perhaps you mean something else.

I'm afraid the way you write - your grammatical 'tells' - along with your inability to follow quite a simple line of reasoning confirms what many people suspect about the types of people who are swayed by Trump style politics. An issue with education perhaps - not in all cases, but certainly in some if not most. It's amusing to see the assumptions you've made about me, simply on account of me saying Sanders is more politically experienced than Trump. According to you I'm a left wing progressive; I'm a backer of Graham and McCain, Republicans; I'm a backer of Hillary and Bernie, Democrats; I'm a liberal. This is precisely the sort of clumsy presumptious rhetoric and name-calling that Trump feeds you, and here you are regurgitating it at anyone who you find threatening - trying to condense the opposition into a small, neat category. I've never voted Liberal in my life and hold no brief for the politicians you mentioned. Incredulity at the rise of Trump seems to be spanning nationalities, cultures, and even political stances. Still, you seem more comfortable pretending I am someone else to suit your argument, so go ahead.

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Casey Casey (532 days ago)

At least now you're starting to modify your statements, instead of making blanket statements like "the rest of the world" etc. your using caveats like "not in all cases, but certainly in some..." You're beginning to see the absurdity of your previous statements and your own hypocrisy. I mentioned that Sanders was forty before he had a regular paying job, as a govt. employee, you refuted that saying he was a carpenter, writer etc. inferring he was proficient at those things. I provided the only proof that he was not proficient enough to make a living at either, you have not provided even one piece of evidence or link to the contrary. The assumptions about you come from your flawed reasoning and sweeping generalisations like "Trump has not a glimmer of political diplomacy" I provided more than a glimmer, that he is willing to talk to who some consider "the free worlds greatest threat" rather than go to war. If you don't believe that is not a "glimmer of diplomacy" I would say it's fair to assume you are either in the warmongers camp OR you just repeat what MSLM spouts without thinking about it, that is a fair assumption given what you have written thus far. The point being you are confused about your position because you listen to too much of the negative attacks on Trump without actually thinking or verifying what they are saying. Similarly with Sanders, you refuse to see the facts when faced with them head on and only bury your head in the sand finding excuses why things aren't the way you wish them to be. That's not living in the real world, that's living in the fantasy world of socialists who think successful people owe them something and they have a "right" to free stuff paid for by others. Trump is not politically correct, grow up and get used to it, people are sick of the PC bullshit, it's one of the reasons he's so popular. You may not like it but I'm sorry it's not all about you and your ilk.

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Original comment

At least now you're starting to modify your statements, instead of making blanket statements like "the rest of the world" etc. your using caveats like "not in all cases, but certainly in some..." You're beginning to see the absurdity of your previous statements and your own hypocrisy. I mentioned that Sanders was forty before he had a regular paying job, as a govt. employee, you refuted that saying he was a carpenter, writer etc. inferring he was proficient at those things. I provided the only proof that he was not proficient enough to make a living at either, you have not provided even one piece of evidence or link to the contrary. The assumptions about you come from your flawed reasoning and sweeping generalisations like "Trump has not a glimmer of political diplomacy" I provided more than a glimmer, that he is willing to talk to who some consider "the free worlds greatest threat" rather than go to war. If you don't believe that is not a "glimmer of diplomacy" I would say it's fair to assume you are either in the warmongers camp OR you just repeat what MSLM spouts without thinking about it, that is a fair assumption given what you have written thus far. The point being you are confused about your position because you listen to too much of the negative attacks on Trump without actually thinking or verifying what they are saying. Similarly with Sanders, you refuse to see the facts when faced with them head on and only bury your head in the sand finding excuses why things aren't the way you wish them to be. That's not living in the real world, that's living in the fantasy world of socialists who think successful people owe them something and they have a "right" to free stuff paid for by others. Trump is not politically correct, grow up and get used to it, people are sick of the PC bullshit, it's one of the reasons he's so popular. You may not like it but I'm sorry it's not all about you and your ilk.

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Guest: (532 days ago)

Ooh dear, I appear to have upset you. Sorry, but when I say things like 'the rest of the world' it's pretty obvious that I don't mean the entirity of the world's population, numerically speaking. It's a literary device called hyperbole; I suggest you look it up along with the difference between 'your' and 'you're', and for the love of God the use of paragraphs (further suggestions to come). Part of my current job involves a lot of travelling - 4 times this year so far - and I am honestly telling you that the people I talk to (including big business) think he is inexperienced at best, and most of them agree that he is a considerable threat to world peace. It's fascinating to see you try and interpret my comments as slowly coming round to your belief set. I don't know if it's a personality disorder, underdeveloped thinking skills, or simple wishful thinking.

Again, you're pretending I said things I didn't. Is that really so much easier for you? "You refuted that saying he was a carpenter, writer etc. inferring he was proficient at those things". You don't mean 'infer'; perhaps you mean that you inferred it from what I said, or maybe you mean imply (another couple of words to look up) - but no, I did not imply he was proficient. I only stated (and I quote) "Bernie has worked as a carpenter, writer, researcher, but more importantly has always had an interest in politics" - these are objective facts, and contradict your mistake that "Bernie... has never had a real job". Bernie has never needed to receive millions of dollars from his family or from banks in order to survive.

If you think Trump and Putin show a 'glimmer of diplomacy' then add 'diplomacy' to tonight's homework. They have never even met, it's entirely speculative, and set against the backdrop of horrendous gaffes and a myriad of world leaders expressing concern at his popularity, a diplomat is not a word you could use to describe him. In fact, I'd doubt that Trump himself would call himself a diplomat.

And again, your self-contradictions - "the fantasy world of socialists who think... they have a "right" to free stuff paid for by others." OK, compare how much Trump has been given over his lifetime by his family, with what Sanders has been given over his lifetime by anyone, anywhere. Trump has survived on bail outs and bankruptcies; 'free stuff' as you put it. That seems to be your world, not the world of the socialists, and not the world of the general population. Maybe you're the one who needs to grow up, stand on your own feet, and not look for Daddy to save you. And another contradiction, "I would say it's fair to assume you are either in the warmongers camp", yet you support Trump, who has said "I’m the most militaristic person there is", and "It’s very possible – that the next president could be called to take aggressive actions, including military action, on the first day in office", and "I would bomb the sh!t out of them", etc. etc. etc. Too many verbatim quotes to provide you with. What a diplomat.

I am not remotely confused about my position. Trump is a disaster across the board, whichever way you lean, even if you can't see that yourself. I read a range of news sources including the most right wing paper my country has to offer - my opinions are largely due to precise things I have heard come out of Trump's mouth. It's not about being politically correct (although he is too dim to be able to understand the cultures he insults); it's about being politically skilled or politically experienced in order to fulfil a political role. Simple. You make the same tired old assumptions that are fed to you by your leader - in order to hate Trump I must be a liberal progressive, I must be politically correct, I must be a Bernie or Hillary supporter. That's gullible oversimplification, as I've already explained. Trump's opposition spans nationalities, countries, religions, and political parties. In some cases, literally the only thing I have in common with people is the fact we all hate Trump. But I realise you won't understand that. There's too much I would need to teach you about the world, about politics, and about the majority of US inhabitants who don't get given millions of dollars by their family. That seems to be beyond you at this moment in time.

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Original comment

Ooh dear, I appear to have upset you. Sorry, but when I say things like 'the rest of the world' it's pretty obvious that I don't mean the entirity of the world's population, numerically speaking. It's a literary device called hyperbole; I suggest you look it up along with the difference between 'your' and 'you're', and for the love of God the use of paragraphs (further suggestions to come). Part of my current job involves a lot of travelling - 4 times this year so far - and I am honestly telling you that the people I talk to (including big business) think he is inexperienced at best, and most of them agree that he is a considerable threat to world peace. It's fascinating to see you try and interpret my comments as slowly coming round to your belief set. I don't know if it's a personality disorder, underdeveloped thinking skills, or simple wishful thinking.

Again, you're pretending I said things I didn't. Is that really so much easier for you? "You refuted that saying he was a carpenter, writer etc. inferring he was proficient at those things". You don't mean 'infer'; perhaps you mean that you inferred it from what I said, or maybe you mean imply (another couple of words to look up) - but no, I did not imply he was proficient. I only stated (and I quote) "Bernie has worked as a carpenter, writer, researcher, but more importantly has always had an interest in politics" - these are objective facts, and contradict your mistake that "Bernie... has never had a real job". Bernie has never needed to receive millions of dollars from his family or from banks in order to survive.

If you think Trump and Putin show a 'glimmer of diplomacy' then add 'diplomacy' to tonight's homework. They have never even met, it's entirely speculative, and set against the backdrop of horrendous gaffes and a myriad of world leaders expressing concern at his popularity, a diplomat is not a word you could use to describe him. In fact, I'd doubt that Trump himself would call himself a diplomat.

And again, your self-contradictions - "the fantasy world of socialists who think... they have a "right" to free stuff paid for by others." OK, compare how much Trump has been given over his lifetime by his family, with what Sanders has been given over his lifetime by anyone, anywhere. Trump has survived on bail outs and bankruptcies; 'free stuff' as you put it. That seems to be your world, not the world of the socialists, and not the world of the general population. Maybe you're the one who needs to grow up, stand on your own feet, and not look for Daddy to save you. And another contradiction, "I would say it's fair to assume you are either in the warmongers camp", yet you support Trump, who has said "I’m the most militaristic person there is", and "It’s very possible – that the next president could be called to take aggressive actions, including military action, on the first day in office", and "I would bomb the sh!t out of them", etc. etc. etc. Too many verbatim quotes to provide you with. What a diplomat.

I am not remotely confused about my position. Trump is a disaster across the board, whichever way you lean, even if you can't see that yourself. I read a range of news sources including the most right wing paper my country has to offer - my opinions are largely due to precise things I have heard come out of Trump's mouth. It's not about being politically correct (although he is too dim to be able to understand the cultures he insults); it's about being politically skilled or politically experienced in order to fulfil a political role. Simple. You make the same tired old assumptions that are fed to you by your leader - in order to hate Trump I must be a liberal progressive, I must be politically correct, I must be a Bernie or Hillary supporter. That's gullible oversimplification, as I've already explained. Trump's opposition spans nationalities, countries, religions, and political parties. In some cases, literally the only thing I have in common with people is the fact we all hate Trump. But I realise you won't understand that. There's too much I would need to teach you about the world, about politics, and about the majority of US inhabitants who don't get given millions of dollars by their family. That seems to be beyond you at this moment in time.

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Casey Casey (532 days ago)

You, upset me? Hardly! What ever gave you that idea? I think you better read what I wrote again, I never suggested you were coming around to my way of thinking, I pointed out your use of blanket statements like "the rest of the world believes ..." Undermines your argument and you reacted by using caveats, good for you.

i also travel extensively, almost continuously, I have businesses in several countries in both north and Southern Hemispheres, and I can tell you people are fed up with politicians in general, not just in the United States. They're fed up with govt. intervention, socialist policies, rules and regulations that just make it harder to do business while at the same time raising taxes. That's Sanders in a nutshell. People are looking for some one outside the establishment, someone who understands business.

I doubt very much there's is anything you could teach me of any value, you seem to suffer from delusions of adequacy, like I said I have no horse in this race, I just see and listen to what's happening in the world around me.

You make, another, ridiculous point equating socialisms hand outs and wealth distribution to the fact Trump received money from his father! There is no comparison! One thing you socialists never seem to understand is its one thing to be given money or property, especially an inheritance, and a completely different thing for the state to forcibly take and distribute the fruits of your labour. It's pointless arguing with some one who doesn't understand those basic moral principals of property rights.

The other telling point is in your last paragraph when you say the only common thing you have across a, supposedly, broad range of people is that you all hate Trump! Really? How closed minded, fanatical and myopic can you be!?

I rest my case.

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You, upset me? Hardly! What ever gave you that idea? I think you better read what I wrote again, I never suggested you were coming around to my way of thinking, I pointed out your use of blanket statements like "the rest of the world believes ..." Undermines your argument and you reacted by using caveats, good for you.

i also travel extensively, almost continuously, I have businesses in several countries in both north and Southern Hemispheres, and I can tell you people are fed up with politicians in general, not just in the United States. They're fed up with govt. intervention, socialist policies, rules and regulations that just make it harder to do business while at the same time raising taxes. That's Sanders in a nutshell. People are looking for some one outside the establishment, someone who understands business.

I doubt very much there's is anything you could teach me of any value, you seem to suffer from delusions of adequacy, like I said I have no horse in this race, I just see and listen to what's happening in the world around me.

You make, another, ridiculous point equating socialisms hand outs and wealth distribution to the fact Trump received money from his father! There is no comparison! One thing you socialists never seem to understand is its one thing to be given money or property, especially an inheritance, and a completely different thing for the state to forcibly take and distribute the fruits of your labour. It's pointless arguing with some one who doesn't understand those basic moral principals of property rights.

The other telling point is in your last paragraph when you say the only common thing you have across a, supposedly, broad range of people is that you all hate Trump! Really? How closed minded, fanatical and myopic can you be!?

I rest my case.

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Guest: (531 days ago)

"Delusions of adequacy"? But I haven't upset you, right? Dear me. This is getting dull; continuously pointing out contradictions to someone who can't see them isn't as fun as I'd hoped. I read what you wrote again... let me demonstrate: "I never suggested you were coming around to my way of thinking" . Earlier however, you said "You're beginning to see the absurdity of your previous statements and your own hypocrisy" - so if that's not me beginning to come round to what you believe, then I guess you don't think my statements are absurd or hypocritical after-all. Great. Either that, or you can't even follow your own logic, let alone mine.

I apologise for needing to explain the caveats for terms like 'the rest of the world' - I had erroneously credited you with the intellect to realise such statements are not numerically verifiable statistics, but rather broad statements reflected by diverse individual opinions. Most people don't need those caveats detailing to them, but point taken, I shall try to be clearer for someone who isn't too gifted at inference and identifying register.

Again, you've decided what my point is rather than facing my argument. I wouldn't deny people are disillusioned with politicians - when did I say otherwise? That's pretty much always the case, after-all that was basically the exact premise of Obama's campaign, and it worked for him. What I am claiming is that the majority of people do not want Trump. Last week I was reading an article in El Mundo, (famously right leaning, if you didn't know) that was explaining in depth how Trump was a hopeless entrepreneur, and would make a hopeless politician. Meanwhile the famously anti-PC, right wing British paper The Daily Mail was writing about allegations of Trump abusing beauty queens and making pacts with the Mafia. Le Figaro - very anti-socialist, Conservative and pro-Republican - describe Trump as a mix between Mussolini and Belusconi. And you chunter about 'Mainsteam Liberal Media'? You're going to need to redefine 'liberal' or 'socialist' if you want to include The Figaro and The Mail! This media opinion covers the spread of political views and is echoed among the population too - one of my French clients openly said they would pull out of USA altogether if Trump became POTUS. For someone like you who pretends to "just see and listen to what's happening in the world", I'm surprised you haven't noticed this obvious strength and unity of feeling.

My point about hand-outs obviously eluded you too. I wasn't comparing socialism as a whole - it's you who is obsessing over that. I was just looking at this terrible attitude among socialists (apparently) who expect 'free stuff', as you put it, and comparing it with Trump's very noble and very independent expectation of a free 1 million from his father early on, a free 9 million a bit later, or maybe the free BILLION deferred by banks, and countless others. No comparison you say. I think you're right after-all; I can't think of any other politician in history that has been gifted that much and bailed out so often.

"I doubt very much there's is anything you could teach me of any value" - the clincher is what you consider to be of value. Clearly you're not interested in the English language or in reasoned argument - premises, conclusions, logical inference, that kind of jazz. I'm guess you're not too fussed about history, human geography isn't your thing and you've obviously already decided what to believe about politics - seemingly, you're not even sure what your terms 'liberal' and 'socialist' mean. So I think you're right. Bearing in mind you literally don't know things that pupils in my country are taught at the age of 9, I suspect education in general is not something you value too highly.

Oh now I'm a socialist too - a fanatic even? You guys need better labels for those of us that are able to see through rhetoric, and old enough to know that politicians need politics - your tired cliches of 'liberals', 'socialists', 'politically correct', 'progressives' are no longer apt to describe the impressive and diverse variety of people against him. It's not remotely myopic or fanatical to notice that sometimes a single attitude can be the only thing you have in common with someone you have only just met. Sometimes on face value, there is nothing at all, but these days most of us are united with anti-Trump sentiment - maybe in that way he is a unifier after-all. Honestly, I suppose it's comforting to you to pretend all Trump transgressors fit into a tiny little box. That way, you don't have to actually confront the reality of a broad, educated, and politically diverse opposition. Whatever works for you. You haven't got to where you are today by being perceptive, considerate, educated and wordly-wise, so I realise there's nothing a forum online can teach you. Good luck to you.

ReplyVote up (101)down (93)
Original comment

"Delusions of adequacy"? But I haven't upset you, right? Dear me. This is getting dull; continuously pointing out contradictions to someone who can't see them isn't as fun as I'd hoped. I read what you wrote again... let me demonstrate: "I never suggested you were coming around to my way of thinking" . Earlier however, you said "You're beginning to see the absurdity of your previous statements and your own hypocrisy" - so if that's not me beginning to come round to what you believe, then I guess you don't think my statements are absurd or hypocritical after-all. Great. Either that, or you can't even follow your own logic, let alone mine.

I apologise for needing to explain the caveats for terms like 'the rest of the world' - I had erroneously credited you with the intellect to realise such statements are not numerically verifiable statistics, but rather broad statements reflected by diverse individual opinions. Most people don't need those caveats detailing to them, but point taken, I shall try to be clearer for someone who isn't too gifted at inference and identifying register.

Again, you've decided what my point is rather than facing my argument. I wouldn't deny people are disillusioned with politicians - when did I say otherwise? That's pretty much always the case, after-all that was basically the exact premise of Obama's campaign, and it worked for him. What I am claiming is that the majority of people do not want Trump. Last week I was reading an article in El Mundo, (famously right leaning, if you didn't know) that was explaining in depth how Trump was a hopeless entrepreneur, and would make a hopeless politician. Meanwhile the famously anti-PC, right wing British paper The Daily Mail was writing about allegations of Trump abusing beauty queens and making pacts with the Mafia. Le Figaro - very anti-socialist, Conservative and pro-Republican - describe Trump as a mix between Mussolini and Belusconi. And you chunter about 'Mainsteam Liberal Media'? You're going to need to redefine 'liberal' or 'socialist' if you want to include The Figaro and The Mail! This media opinion covers the spread of political views and is echoed among the population too - one of my French clients openly said they would pull out of USA altogether if Trump became POTUS. For someone like you who pretends to "just see and listen to what's happening in the world", I'm surprised you haven't noticed this obvious strength and unity of feeling.

My point about hand-outs obviously eluded you too. I wasn't comparing socialism as a whole - it's you who is obsessing over that. I was just looking at this terrible attitude among socialists (apparently) who expect 'free stuff', as you put it, and comparing it with Trump's very noble and very independent expectation of a free 1 million from his father early on, a free 9 million a bit later, or maybe the free BILLION deferred by banks, and countless others. No comparison you say. I think you're right after-all; I can't think of any other politician in history that has been gifted that much and bailed out so often.

"I doubt very much there's is anything you could teach me of any value" - the clincher is what you consider to be of value. Clearly you're not interested in the English language or in reasoned argument - premises, conclusions, logical inference, that kind of jazz. I'm guess you're not too fussed about history, human geography isn't your thing and you've obviously already decided what to believe about politics - seemingly, you're not even sure what your terms 'liberal' and 'socialist' mean. So I think you're right. Bearing in mind you literally don't know things that pupils in my country are taught at the age of 9, I suspect education in general is not something you value too highly.

Oh now I'm a socialist too - a fanatic even? You guys need better labels for those of us that are able to see through rhetoric, and old enough to know that politicians need politics - your tired cliches of 'liberals', 'socialists', 'politically correct', 'progressives' are no longer apt to describe the impressive and diverse variety of people against him. It's not remotely myopic or fanatical to notice that sometimes a single attitude can be the only thing you have in common with someone you have only just met. Sometimes on face value, there is nothing at all, but these days most of us are united with anti-Trump sentiment - maybe in that way he is a unifier after-all. Honestly, I suppose it's comforting to you to pretend all Trump transgressors fit into a tiny little box. That way, you don't have to actually confront the reality of a broad, educated, and politically diverse opposition. Whatever works for you. You haven't got to where you are today by being perceptive, considerate, educated and wordly-wise, so I realise there's nothing a forum online can teach you. Good luck to you.

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Casey Casey (531 days ago)

I accept your oppologies. I'm not going to read through yet another even longer screed of you trying to dig yourself out of previous holes you've dug, you're getting more ridiculous with each posting, which is understandable from some one who travels a lot but the only thing he has in common with the people he meets is a hatred for Trump....yeah, right! No point in going any further....

ReplyVote up (96)down (101)
Original comment

I accept your oppologies. I'm not going to read through yet another even longer screed of you trying to dig yourself out of previous holes you've dug, you're getting more ridiculous with each posting, which is understandable from some one who travels a lot but the only thing he has in common with the people he meets is a hatred for Trump....yeah, right! No point in going any further....

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Guest: (531 days ago)
Latest comment:

lmao you just got schooled!!!

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Latest comment:

lmao you just got schooled!!!

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Guest: (531 days ago)

Boom! QED. I understand for you it's a stress reading so much and I wouldn't want you to continue tying yourself up if you weren't enjoying yourself.

Excellent work there though. Your sharp, eloquent and systematic rebuttal of each of my points has really put me in my place. I guess Trump fans really know what they're talking about after-all, and the image of undereducated bigots parroting out the naive generic propaganda they are fed is entirely unfounded.

That's sarcasm, by the way.

ReplyVote up (101)down (92)
Original comment

Boom! QED. I understand for you it's a stress reading so much and I wouldn't want you to continue tying yourself up if you weren't enjoying yourself.

Excellent work there though. Your sharp, eloquent and systematic rebuttal of each of my points has really put me in my place. I guess Trump fans really know what they're talking about after-all, and the image of undereducated bigots parroting out the naive generic propaganda they are fed is entirely unfounded.

That's sarcasm, by the way.

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Guest: Thundercat (534 days ago)

The populous does not love him.

Just the moronic repubs, with little education, no common sense, and the fear of losing thier guns.

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The populous does not love him.

Just the moronic repubs, with little education, no common sense, and the fear of losing thier guns.

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Guest: (534 days ago)

Walter is one of those people who shares plenty of Trump's backward opinions and buys into his rhetoric, yet fundamentally understands that someone like him cannot successfully run a country. There are plenty of bigots in the USA, but so long as most of them are are clear that Trump doesn't have the political skill to take the position, the world is a safer place.

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Walter is one of those people who shares plenty of Trump's backward opinions and buys into his rhetoric, yet fundamentally understands that someone like him cannot successfully run a country. There are plenty of bigots in the USA, but so long as most of them are are clear that Trump doesn't have the political skill to take the position, the world is a safer place.

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Guest: Dongald Trumpenis (536 days ago)

The Bernie girl destroys the Hillary girl by pointing out that Hillary lies about what she supports. Hillary was on the board of Walmart, and NOW she says she cares about wage inequality?

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The Bernie girl destroys the Hillary girl by pointing out that Hillary lies about what she supports. Hillary was on the board of Walmart, and NOW she says she cares about wage inequality?

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Guest: Hitchhiker (538 days ago)

Hillary is a liar and a criminal, how can she be president?

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Hillary is a liar and a criminal, how can she be president?

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Guest: (533 days ago)

Because she's not a bigotted idiot with zero political experience, and that's all she has to beat.

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Because she's not a bigotted idiot with zero political experience, and that's all she has to beat.

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Guest: (537 days ago)

Simple, all they have to do is apply!

Regan, Nixon, Bush the list is endless

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Simple, all they have to do is apply!

Regan, Nixon, Bush the list is endless

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