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Muslims build Christian church

Muslims build Christian church

(2:22) Pakistani Muslim farmers in a village in near the city of Gojra, help build a church for their Christian neighbours.

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Guest: Not a theist (578 days ago)

Of course without religion they wouldn't have been divided in the first place and they could have expended labour doing something useful instead.

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Of course without religion they wouldn't have been divided in the first place and they could have expended labour doing something useful instead.

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Guest: Cader (578 days ago)

you mean like America bombing Iraq?

Britain bombing Afganistan?

Israeli's bombing Palestinians?

Which one of those is about religion? They are all about land, oil, power, money. In short those are all atheist regimes that are causing those problems

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Original comment

you mean like America bombing Iraq?

Britain bombing Afganistan?

Israeli's bombing Palestinians?

Which one of those is about religion? They are all about land, oil, power, money. In short those are all atheist regimes that are causing those problems

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Guest: kidder23 (576 days ago)

if the middle eastern countries were the worlds largest produces of bananas instead of oil, islam would of been blown to pieces on 9/12

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if the middle eastern countries were the worlds largest produces of bananas instead of oil, islam would of been blown to pieces on 9/12

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Guest: Realist not a/theist (578 days ago)

Nonsense. Humans are excellent at dividing - politics, ethnicity, language, gender, cutlure, geography, etc etc. We've been dividing ourselves for all human history and religion is only one tiny part of that. Funny how atheists blame everything on religion.

Original comment

Nonsense. Humans are excellent at dividing - politics, ethnicity, language, gender, cutlure, geography, etc etc. We've been dividing ourselves for all human history and religion is only one tiny part of that. Funny how atheists blame everything on religion.

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Guest: Guesting (578 days ago)

I am an atheist, but I am convinced that religion served its role in human development. That's why evolution favoured the religious ones.

In recent years things are a bit different. But still do we find that religiosity goes along with improved mental health and overall health (the fundamentalists not included!).

So no, your point does not seem to make sense in an evolutionary perspective. I would rather be happy about mutual understanding between two religious groups that at some stages in history have lived peacefully aside each other, and together. I don't think we help ourselves by looking negatively at positive news.

Original comment

I am an atheist, but I am convinced that religion served its role in human development. That's why evolution favoured the religious ones.

In recent years things are a bit different. But still do we find that religiosity goes along with improved mental health and overall health (the fundamentalists not included!).

So no, your point does not seem to make sense in an evolutionary perspective. I would rather be happy about mutual understanding between two religious groups that at some stages in history have lived peacefully aside each other, and together. I don't think we help ourselves by looking negatively at positive news.

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Guest: Thundercat (579 days ago)

This is so they can get all the christians in one place.

Very efficient, just one bomb needed.

Just a joke.

Its very nice that people can learn to work together.

Original comment

This is so they can get all the christians in one place.

Very efficient, just one bomb needed.

Just a joke.

Its very nice that people can learn to work together.

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Guest: GuestAli786 (578 days ago)

I am from Pakistan and we have lots of christians in our town. Our neighbours are Christians and when either of us runs out of sugar/flour etc, we pop round and get some. We also pull together when we have crisis such as drought or flooding. We have thousands of churches all over the Country. If you go to Islamabad (Capital city) you will see the massive crosses on top of the churches on the main roads. (Amongst the mosques!)
Please do not forget that we (Muslims) built the majority of the Churches in Spain. We built roads and sewage works and schools. The Christians were amazed that we helped them with the churches. The same is true of most Muslim countries, where you do not have a western interest dictator in place. You hear of the plight of the christians in Syria and Iraq, but not before the wars created by the West. All denominations of Muslims, Sunni, Shia, Wahaabi - they all lived in peace along with Christians, Jews and athiests. The same is true in all other Muslim countries. The only exception are Saudi Arabia and the Emirate ciountries.

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Original comment

I am from Pakistan and we have lots of christians in our town. Our neighbours are Christians and when either of us runs out of sugar/flour etc, we pop round and get some. We also pull together when we have crisis such as drought or flooding. We have thousands of churches all over the Country. If you go to Islamabad (Capital city) you will see the massive crosses on top of the churches on the main roads. (Amongst the mosques!)
Please do not forget that we (Muslims) built the majority of the Churches in Spain. We built roads and sewage works and schools. The Christians were amazed that we helped them with the churches. The same is true of most Muslim countries, where you do not have a western interest dictator in place. You hear of the plight of the christians in Syria and Iraq, but not before the wars created by the West. All denominations of Muslims, Sunni, Shia, Wahaabi - they all lived in peace along with Christians, Jews and athiests. The same is true in all other Muslim countries. The only exception are Saudi Arabia and the Emirate ciountries.

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Guest: Thundercat (576 days ago)

Muslims live peacfully beside jews in Isreal.

Pakistanis are not known for their tolerance of others that why Pakistan came into being. They couldn't stand the Hindus.

Your religion is shit, give it up.

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Original comment

Muslims live peacfully beside jews in Isreal.

Pakistanis are not known for their tolerance of others that why Pakistan came into being. They couldn't stand the Hindus.

Your religion is shit, give it up.

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Guest: (576 days ago)

coming from a canadian lol!!

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coming from a canadian lol!!

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Guest: Thundercat (575 days ago)

Whats that got to do with anything?

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Whats that got to do with anything?

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Guest: (575 days ago)

are you joking? canadians can't live peacefully with each other. they bomb anyone who doesnt speak french. universities, law enforcement, you name it. i have a memory so you cant bullsh!t me. and screw you i can't speak french!!! deal with it terrorist.

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Original comment

are you joking? canadians can't live peacefully with each other. they bomb anyone who doesnt speak french. universities, law enforcement, you name it. i have a memory so you cant bullsh!t me. and screw you i can't speak french!!! deal with it terrorist.

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Guest: Thundercat (574 days ago)

You are so ignorant.

We are a bi-lingual country and there is and has been for a long time peace between the french and the english. One small group in the 70's set off a couple of bombs and kidnapped some people, they were put in jail and there hasn't been a problem since.

Your an idiot.

Ferme la bouche. I do speak some french.

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Original comment

You are so ignorant.

We are a bi-lingual country and there is and has been for a long time peace between the french and the english. One small group in the 70's set off a couple of bombs and kidnapped some people, they were put in jail and there hasn't been a problem since.

Your an idiot.

Ferme la bouche. I do speak some french.

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Guest: (574 days ago)

haha trying to white wash. nice try just the 70s? was it? couple of bombs was it?
1963 FLQ bombs canadian army recruiting post.
late 1960s - FLQ bombs national defence HQ.
late 1960s - FLQ bombs tire store.
1969 - FLQ bombs montreal stock exchange.
1969 - FLQ bombs liberal party in montreal.
1984 - federalist enters National Assembly to try to kill lévesque and the deputies of the pq
2000 - brigade d'autodefense du français bombs a church
2001 - FLQ and brigade d'autodefense du français firebombs THREE "2nd cup" locations in montreal.
2001 - SEVEN mcdonald's restaurants firebombed.
2012 - attempted assasination of quebecois leader and premier elect at provincial elections. concert hall set fire. man killed. and that wasnt even one of the frenchies. you see its not the french speakers its canadians.
and thats not even starting on all the antrhax threats (even last year) or the mail bombs. just a couple bombs in the 70s? hahaha
so tell me. are you a ignorant idiot with a really short memory or are you part of the atempt to white wash over typical canadian terorism? which is it? i think your the typical canadian separatist that has to lie to make his people seem peaceful. your whole history is violence and ignorance so what do we expect.

ReplyVote up (71)down (101)
Original comment

haha trying to white wash. nice try just the 70s? was it? couple of bombs was it?
1963 FLQ bombs canadian army recruiting post.
late 1960s - FLQ bombs national defence HQ.
late 1960s - FLQ bombs tire store.
1969 - FLQ bombs montreal stock exchange.
1969 - FLQ bombs liberal party in montreal.
1984 - federalist enters National Assembly to try to kill lévesque and the deputies of the pq
2000 - brigade d'autodefense du français bombs a church
2001 - FLQ and brigade d'autodefense du français firebombs THREE "2nd cup" locations in montreal.
2001 - SEVEN mcdonald's restaurants firebombed.
2012 - attempted assasination of quebecois leader and premier elect at provincial elections. concert hall set fire. man killed. and that wasnt even one of the frenchies. you see its not the french speakers its canadians.
and thats not even starting on all the antrhax threats (even last year) or the mail bombs. just a couple bombs in the 70s? hahaha
so tell me. are you a ignorant idiot with a really short memory or are you part of the atempt to white wash over typical canadian terorism? which is it? i think your the typical canadian separatist that has to lie to make his people seem peaceful. your whole history is violence and ignorance so what do we expect.

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Guest: thundercat (574 days ago)

Yep the flq has been up to no good, its been taken care of and we've moved along.

Besides its an 8 hour drive to montreal from here.

The seperatists have gotten most of their demands except to leave the country. It is mostly a political thing, in fact the bloc quebecois is no longer an official pilitical party because it lost too many seats in parlaiment.

This alone implies that the people of quebec are no longer interested in leaving the country, they would rather have jobs and money. Paying the debt that they owe to the crown would put them in a bad position, they would not get the transfer payments from the rest of the country.

You really have no idea what your talking about.

ReplyVote up (85)down (101)
Original comment

Yep the flq has been up to no good, its been taken care of and we've moved along.

Besides its an 8 hour drive to montreal from here.

The seperatists have gotten most of their demands except to leave the country. It is mostly a political thing, in fact the bloc quebecois is no longer an official pilitical party because it lost too many seats in parlaiment.

This alone implies that the people of quebec are no longer interested in leaving the country, they would rather have jobs and money. Paying the debt that they owe to the crown would put them in a bad position, they would not get the transfer payments from the rest of the country.

You really have no idea what your talking about.

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Guest: thundercat (574 days ago)

Wait there was no flq after 69.

1984 just some english nutter who went off, i remember that one.

Why couldnt you come up with these yourself so you cut and paste from a domestic terrorism in canada-quebec.

These so called terrorists are like the waco nuts in the states, theyre lunatics, theres like 7 of them and they hang out at timmys.

I lived in quebec for a while and had absolutely no problem at all, very nice people.

ReplyVote up (75)down (101)
Original comment

Wait there was no flq after 69.

1984 just some english nutter who went off, i remember that one.

Why couldnt you come up with these yourself so you cut and paste from a domestic terrorism in canada-quebec.

These so called terrorists are like the waco nuts in the states, theyre lunatics, theres like 7 of them and they hang out at timmys.

I lived in quebec for a while and had absolutely no problem at all, very nice people.

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Guest: (573 days ago)

there was no flq after 69 and yet the bombings continued. what does that say. you even had somene trying an assasination a few years ago. of course i am not going to remember the date and order of every time when canadians have bombed people. there are just to many instances. even you had to check and your canadian. you say i dont know what i am talking about when it was you who claimed you had "small group in the 70's set off a couple of bombs". haha nice try to white wash over history. you and the flq lunatics and so called terorist canadians are still canadians. "nice people" you say. that says it all. blood thirsty separatists who resort to violence and threats to get there way. then try to white wash and create this myth that canadians are so polite. all part of the plan.

ReplyVote up (97)down (101)
Original comment

there was no flq after 69 and yet the bombings continued. what does that say. you even had somene trying an assasination a few years ago. of course i am not going to remember the date and order of every time when canadians have bombed people. there are just to many instances. even you had to check and your canadian. you say i dont know what i am talking about when it was you who claimed you had "small group in the 70's set off a couple of bombs". haha nice try to white wash over history. you and the flq lunatics and so called terorist canadians are still canadians. "nice people" you say. that says it all. blood thirsty separatists who resort to violence and threats to get there way. then try to white wash and create this myth that canadians are so polite. all part of the plan.

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Guest: Thundercat (573 days ago)

Canadians are very polite people, you cannot deny that.

The french are the ones who bombed people and they were isolated incidents. There are not too many incidents, just a few and no where near the trouble they have in the states. I have never had a bad interaction with a french person and we are all very civilised in the way we do things. There are a few bad apples that think violence will get them what they want and over the years they have been proven wrong. I have never met a blood thirsty seperatist. I think you watch too many movies.

Yes its all part of an evil conspiracy to take over the world.

LMAO

ReplyVote up (96)down (101)
Original comment

Canadians are very polite people, you cannot deny that.

The french are the ones who bombed people and they were isolated incidents. There are not too many incidents, just a few and no where near the trouble they have in the states. I have never had a bad interaction with a french person and we are all very civilised in the way we do things. There are a few bad apples that think violence will get them what they want and over the years they have been proven wrong. I have never met a blood thirsty seperatist. I think you watch too many movies.

Yes its all part of an evil conspiracy to take over the world.

LMAO

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Guest: (564 days ago)

violent french canadians are still canadians. you want to say they dont represent you all but they do. you want to lie about what you have done call it just a couple of bombs in the seventies. just a total lie and i called your bluff. your busted. i dont call fire bombing and anthrax hoax polite and civilized do you?? (probably as your canadian). canadians will never take over the world as they are to weak but they dont mind killing innocents to try and get there way inside canada.

ReplyVote up (101)down (99)
Original comment

violent french canadians are still canadians. you want to say they dont represent you all but they do. you want to lie about what you have done call it just a couple of bombs in the seventies. just a total lie and i called your bluff. your busted. i dont call fire bombing and anthrax hoax polite and civilized do you?? (probably as your canadian). canadians will never take over the world as they are to weak but they dont mind killing innocents to try and get there way inside canada.

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Guest: Drumbeat (576 days ago)

Perhaps you should have a look at this short list

LINK

Someone is actually keeping count.

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Original comment

Perhaps you should have a look at this short list

LINK

Someone is actually keeping count.

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Guest: (576 days ago)

Absolutely. It would be great to be informed by an authoritive and impartial news website....

Oh.

ReplyVote up (101)down (98)
Original comment

Absolutely. It would be great to be informed by an authoritive and impartial news website....

Oh.

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Guest: DeIgrunt (575 days ago)

No such thing, you have to read everything, especially the source texts.

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No such thing, you have to read everything, especially the source texts.

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Guest: (575 days ago)

Eeeeyoreeee still spouting his vile hate.

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Eeeeyoreeee still spouting his vile hate.

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Guest: Drumbeat (575 days ago)

Count another one today, a singer, guess where ? suppose it was because he sang out of tune not because he was a different.

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Count another one today, a singer, guess where ? suppose it was because he sang out of tune not because he was a different.

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Guest: (575 days ago)

Yes another Muslim victim. What was your point again?

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Yes another Muslim victim. What was your point again?

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Guest: Drumbeat (574 days ago)

Not really under the constitution of Pakistan a Sufi even a singing one cannot call themselves a muslim, like all the Ahmadi. In Glasgow a Ahmadiyya muslim called Shah was killed by an Ahmed who came from guess where ? Pakistan some 20 years ago..

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Not really under the constitution of Pakistan a Sufi even a singing one cannot call themselves a muslim, like all the Ahmadi. In Glasgow a Ahmadiyya muslim called Shah was killed by an Ahmed who came from guess where ? Pakistan some 20 years ago..

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Guest: PA (574 days ago)

Have you got a source for that? Seems odd. To my knowledge, the Pakistan Constitution only defines a Muslim as someone who believes Muhammed was the final prophet. That definitely includes Sufism which is in itself pretty broad. Sufism is nothing to do with the minority sect of Ahmadiyya and is still big in Pakistan - something like 1 in 6 Muslims there belongs to a Sufi order. If you're saying none of them are real Muslims, it seems you have more in commmon with Radical Islamists that you might like to think.

ReplyVote up (101)down (67)
Original comment

Have you got a source for that? Seems odd. To my knowledge, the Pakistan Constitution only defines a Muslim as someone who believes Muhammed was the final prophet. That definitely includes Sufism which is in itself pretty broad. Sufism is nothing to do with the minority sect of Ahmadiyya and is still big in Pakistan - something like 1 in 6 Muslims there belongs to a Sufi order. If you're saying none of them are real Muslims, it seems you have more in commmon with Radical Islamists that you might like to think.

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Guest: Drumbeat (573 days ago)

Try "The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan", Definitions 260. (1) 2 (a) muslims and 2 (b) non-muslims.

Sufis by their extra early prophets and particularly Tariqat following the death of Mohammed make them firmly in the "sects" section.

The definition you suggest is the same as in Wiki. and not that in the constitution, it is worrth a read try it. I do not define real muslims or Islamic extremists. I leave that to people like you.

ReplyVote up (68)down (101)
Original comment

Try "The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan", Definitions 260. (1) 2 (a) muslims and 2 (b) non-muslims.

Sufis by their extra early prophets and particularly Tariqat following the death of Mohammed make them firmly in the "sects" section.

The definition you suggest is the same as in Wiki. and not that in the constitution, it is worrth a read try it. I do not define real muslims or Islamic extremists. I leave that to people like you.

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Guest: PA (573 days ago)

This conversation was the result of me reminding you the victim was a Muslim, and you replying 'Not really', so it certainly looks as if you're agreeing with definitions of what is or isn't a real Muslim. But you're right, the constitution extracts really were worth a read, and basically were exactly as I said. I'm sure you didn't bother, so here's the text verbatim:

"(a) "Muslim" means a person who believes in the unity and oneness of Almighty Allah, in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him), the last of the prophets, and does not believe in, or recognize as a prophet or religious reformer, any person who claimed or claims to be a prophet, in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever, after Muhammad (peace be upon him);

(b) "non-Muslim" means a person who is not a Muslim and includes a person belonging to the Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist or Parsi community, a person of the Quadiani Group or the Lahori Group who call themselves 'Ahmadis' or by any other name or a Bahai, and a person belonging to any of the Scheduled Castes."

Sufism definitely does not claim that there were any prophets after Muhammed, and that is explicitly what the first clause excludes. In Sufism there are saints before M, but no prophets after. As for Tariqat, they are merely ways of following the last prophet, so again, no denial of the finality of Muhammed. The only people that deny Sufis are 'real Muslims' other than yourself are the type of armed militant group that has been banned in Pakistan.

Sufism definitely isn't a sect, it's an integral 'dimension' or 'aspect' of all Islam that is respected to varying degrees by all Muslims. In fact, Sufi orders are so common among Pakistani Muslims (including Shias and Sunnis) that there's even a state-sponsored Sufi Advisory Council. Through the SAC, Sufism is being officially promoted by the Pakistan government as a possible way of combatting radical Islam. And you think it's banned in the constitution? Right.

Maybe you were thinking of something else?

ReplyVote up (101)down (75)
Original comment

This conversation was the result of me reminding you the victim was a Muslim, and you replying 'Not really', so it certainly looks as if you're agreeing with definitions of what is or isn't a real Muslim. But you're right, the constitution extracts really were worth a read, and basically were exactly as I said. I'm sure you didn't bother, so here's the text verbatim:

"(a) "Muslim" means a person who believes in the unity and oneness of Almighty Allah, in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him), the last of the prophets, and does not believe in, or recognize as a prophet or religious reformer, any person who claimed or claims to be a prophet, in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever, after Muhammad (peace be upon him);

(b) "non-Muslim" means a person who is not a Muslim and includes a person belonging to the Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist or Parsi community, a person of the Quadiani Group or the Lahori Group who call themselves 'Ahmadis' or by any other name or a Bahai, and a person belonging to any of the Scheduled Castes."

Sufism definitely does not claim that there were any prophets after Muhammed, and that is explicitly what the first clause excludes. In Sufism there are saints before M, but no prophets after. As for Tariqat, they are merely ways of following the last prophet, so again, no denial of the finality of Muhammed. The only people that deny Sufis are 'real Muslims' other than yourself are the type of armed militant group that has been banned in Pakistan.

Sufism definitely isn't a sect, it's an integral 'dimension' or 'aspect' of all Islam that is respected to varying degrees by all Muslims. In fact, Sufi orders are so common among Pakistani Muslims (including Shias and Sunnis) that there's even a state-sponsored Sufi Advisory Council. Through the SAC, Sufism is being officially promoted by the Pakistan government as a possible way of combatting radical Islam. And you think it's banned in the constitution? Right.

Maybe you were thinking of something else?

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Guest: Drumbeat (560 days ago)
Latest comment:

Here again

LINK

Story on BBC too.

Taking their vile hatred where ever they go.

ReplyVote up (101)down (87)
Original comment
Latest comment:

Here again

LINK

Story on BBC too.

Taking their vile hatred where ever they go.

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Guest: (573 days ago)

Ha you are foolish. Much of the problem in Pakistan is not because the constitution not accepting Sufi but the opposite that the constitution and governing want to promote it over the whole country. This is why some hate it. It has a favour. You are ignorant.

ReplyVote up (101)down (70)
Original comment

Ha you are foolish. Much of the problem in Pakistan is not because the constitution not accepting Sufi but the opposite that the constitution and governing want to promote it over the whole country. This is why some hate it. It has a favour. You are ignorant.

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Guest: (578 days ago)

Muslims) built the majority of the Churches in Spain

where did you get that from? give me the website.

ReplyVote up (78)down (101)
Original comment

Muslims) built the majority of the Churches in Spain

where did you get that from? give me the website.

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