The European Union is the world's most successful invention for advancing peace
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The European Union is the world's most successful invention for advancing peace

The European Union is the world's most successful invention for advancing peace

The European Union is the world's most successful invention for advancing peace. John Bruton, Irish politician (b. 1947). More homepage quotes

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Guest: Davymac (541 days ago)

What a load of cods-wallop.. There has been peace since the Nazi's were ground into the dirt, mainly assisted by the nation who, as a member state, are hated the most, United Kingdom.. As for peace, have a look at the middle east and the rise of I.S. ALL under the watch of a corrupt EU, who regardless of voters, operate a left wing liberal, limp-wristed ideal.. As for European peace, just because there isn't dead on the battlefields, EVERY Nation spies on each other, with some trying to destroy by stealth the UK, and whilst the Common Market was a good idea in principle, it soon evolved into a socialists wet dream. Now we have an unelected heirarchy in Brussels, opening the door to anyone, throwing their weight around against the UK, whom they detest, but secretly NEED to keep their wee utopia above water..

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What a load of cods-wallop.. There has been peace since the Nazi's were ground into the dirt, mainly assisted by the nation who, as a member state, are hated the most, United Kingdom.. As for peace, have a look at the middle east and the rise of I.S. ALL under the watch of a corrupt EU, who regardless of voters, operate a left wing liberal, limp-wristed ideal.. As for European peace, just because there isn't dead on the battlefields, EVERY Nation spies on each other, with some trying to destroy by stealth the UK, and whilst the Common Market was a good idea in principle, it soon evolved into a socialists wet dream. Now we have an unelected heirarchy in Brussels, opening the door to anyone, throwing their weight around against the UK, whom they detest, but secretly NEED to keep their wee utopia above water..

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Guest: peace in our time (541 days ago)

"Mainly assisted" by the UK? I think you forget the USSR and USA. The UK was small fry compared to them.

The Middle East is part of the EU? Didn't know that.

"Just because there isn't dead on battlefields ..." - yeah, that is just a detail. We are all really at war in the EU.

Well mate you've made your bed. Now lie on it.

The UK is sitting on a branch of the EU tree, and now it is sawing that branch off. We'll be free! Until we hit the ground.

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"Mainly assisted" by the UK? I think you forget the USSR and USA. The UK was small fry compared to them.

The Middle East is part of the EU? Didn't know that.

"Just because there isn't dead on battlefields ..." - yeah, that is just a detail. We are all really at war in the EU.

Well mate you've made your bed. Now lie on it.

The UK is sitting on a branch of the EU tree, and now it is sawing that branch off. We'll be free! Until we hit the ground.

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Guest: (541 days ago)

As regards WW2 I think 'mainly assisted' is a fair statement. The USSR began on the wrong side and weren't an ally until 1941, and the USA didn't decide to join in until right at the end of that same year. This is contrast to the UK (and hence its Commonwealth nations) who declared war 2 days (not 2 years) after Germany invaded Poland.

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As regards WW2 I think 'mainly assisted' is a fair statement. The USSR began on the wrong side and weren't an ally until 1941, and the USA didn't decide to join in until right at the end of that same year. This is contrast to the UK (and hence its Commonwealth nations) who declared war 2 days (not 2 years) after Germany invaded Poland.

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Guest: peace in our time (541 days ago)
Latest comment:

I read Davymac's post to mean the Nazis were mainly assisted into the dirt by the UK, which I don't think is the case. But I agree the USA and USSR were mainly assisted by the UK.

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Latest comment:

I read Davymac's post to mean the Nazis were mainly assisted into the dirt by the UK, which I don't think is the case. But I agree the USA and USSR were mainly assisted by the UK.

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Guest: (541 days ago)

PS: the EU is (was) obviously in the UK's interest, I wouldn't deny that. Now it'll be interesting to see how the Leave campaign will explain away the deteriorating economy, the continued immigration, the huge job losses, etc.etc.

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PS: the EU is (was) obviously in the UK's interest, I wouldn't deny that. Now it'll be interesting to see how the Leave campaign will explain away the deteriorating economy, the continued immigration, the huge job losses, etc.etc.

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Guest: peace in our time (541 days ago)

Davymac sees himslef as a victim. He thinks everyone in the EU hates the UK. I suspect he uses that to explain the difference between his actual life and what he feels entitled to.

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Davymac sees himslef as a victim. He thinks everyone in the EU hates the UK. I suspect he uses that to explain the difference between his actual life and what he feels entitled to.

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Guest: (541 days ago)

I wouldn't be surprised if every moderate voter in the EU does hate the UK after this morning's result. They have every intolerant right wing group on the continent wanting out as well. Shame on half the Britons for such a knee-jerk jingoistic decision. It will come back to haunt them.

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I wouldn't be surprised if every moderate voter in the EU does hate the UK after this morning's result. They have every intolerant right wing group on the continent wanting out as well. Shame on half the Britons for such a knee-jerk jingoistic decision. It will come back to haunt them.

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Guest: Andrew52 (545 days ago)

Bollocks

NATO is what has brought peace. The EU, if it continues in its undemocratic power grabs and trying to take away the power from its democratically elected parliaments of its member states will end up in a disgusting war, just like the eventual break-up of Yugoslavia.

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Bollocks

NATO is what has brought peace. The EU, if it continues in its undemocratic power grabs and trying to take away the power from its democratically elected parliaments of its member states will end up in a disgusting war, just like the eventual break-up of Yugoslavia.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (545 days ago)

NATO doesn't advance peace. It is a military alliance. It keeps the peace by being a deterrent (the principle: an attack on one NATO member is an attack on all). NATO also fights wars, as in Afghanistan and Yugoslavia. The Serbia/Kosovo war was a NATO operation, not EU. Military forces in Afghanistan were commanded by NATO.

The EU advances peace by bringing together 28 countries who regularly meet in the European Council to air issues and discuss proposals.

I don't think it's fair to call the EU undemocratic. The EU Parliament is made up of MEPs who are elected by the people of each member state. Granted that hardly anyone in the UK votes in the EU elections (I don't even know who my MEP is) but that is not the fault of the EU. Other EU "departments" like the EU Council, EU Court of Justice, EU Commission, are made up of people appointed by the democratically elected governments of each member state. So if we want to propose a farming issue, our democratically elected government sends a representative, probably the Minister for Agriculture, to the European Council. I may not have got it completely right, but I think that's the gist of it.

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NATO doesn't advance peace. It is a military alliance. It keeps the peace by being a deterrent (the principle: an attack on one NATO member is an attack on all). NATO also fights wars, as in Afghanistan and Yugoslavia. The Serbia/Kosovo war was a NATO operation, not EU. Military forces in Afghanistan were commanded by NATO.

The EU advances peace by bringing together 28 countries who regularly meet in the European Council to air issues and discuss proposals.

I don't think it's fair to call the EU undemocratic. The EU Parliament is made up of MEPs who are elected by the people of each member state. Granted that hardly anyone in the UK votes in the EU elections (I don't even know who my MEP is) but that is not the fault of the EU. Other EU "departments" like the EU Council, EU Court of Justice, EU Commission, are made up of people appointed by the democratically elected governments of each member state. So if we want to propose a farming issue, our democratically elected government sends a representative, probably the Minister for Agriculture, to the European Council. I may not have got it completely right, but I think that's the gist of it.

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Guest: Andrew52 (545 days ago)

MEPs are a powerless tallking shop. The appontees that are put in place by constituent governments are usuaslly failed politicians put out to grass and often not what the other nations would want. We joined the Common Market, a trading alliance with a small number of countries. Now, the number of countries is nearly four times as much with a further 5 in the pipeline. It has become unwieldly and difficult to get a timely and fairto-all decision. It is a cobbling together of a mix of very different nations with different economies, dominated byGermany anf the northern countries with the Mediterranean countries all suffering economically with very high unemployment - nearly 50% youth unemployment. This is seeing a rapid rise of anti EU parties, some of which are extreme right wing. Do Brusseks listen? of course not, they are only interested in creating a United States of Europe with its own army and encouragung trouble with Russia's former satellites - poke a bear with a stick but don't be surprised when he eats you, Yet another portent of the wars to come unless the countries of Europe can break free from this undemocratic, unelected , blinkered, dictatorial oligarchy and become a cooperating set of independent nations with their own currencies.

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MEPs are a powerless tallking shop. The appontees that are put in place by constituent governments are usuaslly failed politicians put out to grass and often not what the other nations would want. We joined the Common Market, a trading alliance with a small number of countries. Now, the number of countries is nearly four times as much with a further 5 in the pipeline. It has become unwieldly and difficult to get a timely and fairto-all decision. It is a cobbling together of a mix of very different nations with different economies, dominated byGermany anf the northern countries with the Mediterranean countries all suffering economically with very high unemployment - nearly 50% youth unemployment. This is seeing a rapid rise of anti EU parties, some of which are extreme right wing. Do Brusseks listen? of course not, they are only interested in creating a United States of Europe with its own army and encouragung trouble with Russia's former satellites - poke a bear with a stick but don't be surprised when he eats you, Yet another portent of the wars to come unless the countries of Europe can break free from this undemocratic, unelected , blinkered, dictatorial oligarchy and become a cooperating set of independent nations with their own currencies.

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Guest: eurofile (544 days ago)

What's wrong with a United States of Europe?

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What's wrong with a United States of Europe?

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Guest: Andrew52 (544 days ago)

Everything if you are British but if you want that, go and live in Brussels, you should be safe there because that is probably the last country that will exit the failed EU.

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Everything if you are British but if you want that, go and live in Brussels, you should be safe there because that is probably the last country that will exit the failed EU.

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Guest: eurofile (544 days ago)

Andrew52 - is that it? "Everything if you are British." Not very informative.

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Andrew52 - is that it? "Everything if you are British." Not very informative.

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Guest: BollocksToBrussels (544 days ago)

What is a eurofile? something to round the edges off foreign coins? or are you a europhile?

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What is a eurofile? something to round the edges off foreign coins? or are you a europhile?

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Guest: eurofile (543 days ago)

Eurofile, Imafile. But my bollocks are not in Brussels. Isn't that inconvenient?

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Eurofile, Imafile. But my bollocks are not in Brussels. Isn't that inconvenient?

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Guest: peace in our time (545 days ago)

For most of history Europe has been a collection of independent nation states, and for most of that time they have been at war with each other. For a while the Romans united and ruled most of Europe. What did the Romans ever do for us? Well, after the Roman empire fell, the Dark Ages lasted almost a thousand years.

By the 20th century European wars had become so dreadful that they engulfed the whole world. The next world war may really be the war to end wars, so since 1945 the European Union has gradually come into being. It is a huge political experiment to see if we can replace armed conflict with peaceful ways to resolve our differences. "Jaw, jaw is better than war, war," as Churchill put it. The UK is a large part of this union and our leaving would put it at risk.

Because we have not had a major European war since 1945, hardly anyone alive has any memory of anything different. We have grown accustomed to peace and talk of war seems ridiculous. But war is Europe's traditional way of dealing with problems. All it takes is a period of austerity, a fast-talking politician who blames all our troubles on foreigners (or Jews, or Muslims, or gays ...) and we will soon hear the same old story again.

If you think this leaflet is just scaremongering, you are only half right. Sometimes it is right to be scared.

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For most of history Europe has been a collection of independent nation states, and for most of that time they have been at war with each other. For a while the Romans united and ruled most of Europe. What did the Romans ever do for us? Well, after the Roman empire fell, the Dark Ages lasted almost a thousand years.

By the 20th century European wars had become so dreadful that they engulfed the whole world. The next world war may really be the war to end wars, so since 1945 the European Union has gradually come into being. It is a huge political experiment to see if we can replace armed conflict with peaceful ways to resolve our differences. "Jaw, jaw is better than war, war," as Churchill put it. The UK is a large part of this union and our leaving would put it at risk.

Because we have not had a major European war since 1945, hardly anyone alive has any memory of anything different. We have grown accustomed to peace and talk of war seems ridiculous. But war is Europe's traditional way of dealing with problems. All it takes is a period of austerity, a fast-talking politician who blames all our troubles on foreigners (or Jews, or Muslims, or gays ...) and we will soon hear the same old story again.

If you think this leaflet is just scaremongering, you are only half right. Sometimes it is right to be scared.

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Guest: peace in our time (544 days ago)

Replying to myself ... one question never asked, let alone answered: Europe is the continent that brought the world together, invented science, joint stock companies, democracy and who knows how many other great things. As well as some horrors: industrial warfare, for example.

Could it just be that we cannot have one without the other? As Harry Lime puts it, what's so great about peace? Look at Switzerland. 300 years of peace, and all they did with it was to invent the cuckoo clock.

I would love to hear a political-historical discussion of that.

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Replying to myself ... one question never asked, let alone answered: Europe is the continent that brought the world together, invented science, joint stock companies, democracy and who knows how many other great things. As well as some horrors: industrial warfare, for example.

Could it just be that we cannot have one without the other? As Harry Lime puts it, what's so great about peace? Look at Switzerland. 300 years of peace, and all they did with it was to invent the cuckoo clock.

I would love to hear a political-historical discussion of that.

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Guest: Dafuuuuuuuq (545 days ago)

True, because now we export weapons together.

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True, because now we export weapons together.

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Guest: poundbaby56 (544 days ago)

Interesting info graphic shows how UK tax money is spent and how much is contributed to the EU: LINK

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Interesting info graphic shows how UK tax money is spent and how much is contributed to the EU: LINK

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (543 days ago)

I think as a species we need to come together politically and spiritually if we are to tackle the huge global problems we are facing - climate change, mass migration, terrorism, corporate greed, etc. All of these problems require collective action among nations. Therefore I'm voting to Remain.

Here's a thought: plausible scenario if we leave - this time next year Scotland leaves the UK, Europe has disintegrated, a wall divides the US and Mexico, President Trump and Prime Minister Boris are in charge. That's a divided world I don't want to live in.

But I'm disappointed in the Remain campaign. Europe needs a vision, and this referendum could have been a fantastic opportunity to inspire every young European to get involved, imagine and fight for a more democratic Europe that works in the interest of all humanity - like what Bernie Sanders is doing for American politics.

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I think as a species we need to come together politically and spiritually if we are to tackle the huge global problems we are facing - climate change, mass migration, terrorism, corporate greed, etc. All of these problems require collective action among nations. Therefore I'm voting to Remain.

Here's a thought: plausible scenario if we leave - this time next year Scotland leaves the UK, Europe has disintegrated, a wall divides the US and Mexico, President Trump and Prime Minister Boris are in charge. That's a divided world I don't want to live in.

But I'm disappointed in the Remain campaign. Europe needs a vision, and this referendum could have been a fantastic opportunity to inspire every young European to get involved, imagine and fight for a more democratic Europe that works in the interest of all humanity - like what Bernie Sanders is doing for American politics.

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Mesmerelda Mesmerelda (541 days ago)

For those who voted out because they don't like brown people, we can now look forward to the Jungle in Dover.

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For those who voted out because they don't like brown people, we can now look forward to the Jungle in Dover.

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