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Muslim meltdown after discovering the truth (fake subtitles)

Muslim meltdown after discovering the truth (fake subtitles)

(3:02) An Arab TV station discussed J.K Sheindlin's controversial book 'The People Vs Muhammad'. This was the aftermath. The People Vs Muhammad is available from: Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.com

Thanks to PA for pointing out that the subtitles in this video do not reflect the actual Arabic spoken. Video with correct subtitles: youtu.be/J6j958QRi-Y

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Guest: (410 days ago)

The fact that the video has been distorted wth false subtitles to promote a anti-Islam book featured on "Israel Video Network" (see LINK has all the hallmarks of the JIDF. The JIDF by the way are also apologists for an absurd religion which believes that an invisible man selected them to be his chosen people and then drew a rather vague line in the sand for the promised land.

A plague on both your houses.

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The fact that the video has been distorted wth false subtitles to promote a anti-Islam book featured on "Israel Video Network" (see LINK has all the hallmarks of the JIDF. The JIDF by the way are also apologists for an absurd religion which believes that an invisible man selected them to be his chosen people and then drew a rather vague line in the sand for the promised land.

A plague on both your houses.

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Guest: (409 days ago)

this site is so stupid. the video is NOTHING about islam it is about a president of egypt who took more power for him self and who ordered his own people killed when they protested. why isnt morsi in the title and quotes??

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this site is so stupid. the video is NOTHING about islam it is about a president of egypt who took more power for him self and who ordered his own people killed when they protested. why isnt morsi in the title and quotes??

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Guest: (409 days ago)

Memri has quite a track record in distorting translations from arabic:

LINK

Christopher Hitchens - we really miss you, you dear wise and clear-sighted man.

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Memri has quite a track record in distorting translations from arabic:

LINK

Christopher Hitchens - we really miss you, you dear wise and clear-sighted man.

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Guest: PA (410 days ago)

Very funny. This is absolutely fascinating, and very telling that this video is featured on BoreMe. It shows how easy it is to feed people lies that they want to believe, and how poor people are at intellectual scrutiny, or choosing reputable sources. I'm not talking about Muslims...

The person being interviewed is Ihab al-Khouli an Egyptian opposition activist. He is ranting about Morsi - there is no mention of Islam, the Quran, or some petty Islamophobic book at all. Shock horror - fake subtitles.

It seems it would take either someone who can understand Arabic, and / or someone with criticial thinking skills to figure this out. I'm not altogether surprised that in the Islamophobic and BoreMe communities, neither is plentiful. It's not just the religious that prey on the gullible.

BoreMe, you've just been had.

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Very funny. This is absolutely fascinating, and very telling that this video is featured on BoreMe. It shows how easy it is to feed people lies that they want to believe, and how poor people are at intellectual scrutiny, or choosing reputable sources. I'm not talking about Muslims...

The person being interviewed is Ihab al-Khouli an Egyptian opposition activist. He is ranting about Morsi - there is no mention of Islam, the Quran, or some petty Islamophobic book at all. Shock horror - fake subtitles.

It seems it would take either someone who can understand Arabic, and / or someone with criticial thinking skills to figure this out. I'm not altogether surprised that in the Islamophobic and BoreMe communities, neither is plentiful. It's not just the religious that prey on the gullible.

BoreMe, you've just been had.

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Guest: Guesting (409 days ago)

Wow. I just saw the correct translation. The video BoreMe asks us to look at is nothing but hostile and false propaganda, contributing to ignorance and conflict. And BoreMe is happy to keep it online, hoping to gain financial profit from preaching hate.

Well, BoreMe editor, at least you showed us your true character by not taking down that video.

And for the person on the video: What BoreMe and others do to him is horrifying. I feel sorry for him.

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Wow. I just saw the correct translation. The video BoreMe asks us to look at is nothing but hostile and false propaganda, contributing to ignorance and conflict. And BoreMe is happy to keep it online, hoping to gain financial profit from preaching hate.

Well, BoreMe editor, at least you showed us your true character by not taking down that video.

And for the person on the video: What BoreMe and others do to him is horrifying. I feel sorry for him.

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Guest: PA (409 days ago)

I think we all know the bias of this site, but that alone isn't a problem. I actually believe the video is very important but it needs to have an honest description, particularly when the editor seeks to profit from it through his affiliate links. After-all, with an accurate title this video is a rather wonderful and revealing example of how people against a religion deliberately and wilfully distort the truth, sometimes for personal financial gain, and how like-minded people are so keen to believe it they lose the ability to scrutinise what they see. When these are some of the strongest criticisms against religion itself, it shows the level of hypocrisy at play. It's also telling how few regular commenters here managed to spot the hoax, and how few can now bring themselves to condemn it.

I agree about Al-Khouli. He had a very serious and heartfelt argument about Morsi which has now been entirely lost thanks to people using him as a sock puppet for their own personal hatred. It feels like a new low.

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I think we all know the bias of this site, but that alone isn't a problem. I actually believe the video is very important but it needs to have an honest description, particularly when the editor seeks to profit from it through his affiliate links. After-all, with an accurate title this video is a rather wonderful and revealing example of how people against a religion deliberately and wilfully distort the truth, sometimes for personal financial gain, and how like-minded people are so keen to believe it they lose the ability to scrutinise what they see. When these are some of the strongest criticisms against religion itself, it shows the level of hypocrisy at play. It's also telling how few regular commenters here managed to spot the hoax, and how few can now bring themselves to condemn it.

I agree about Al-Khouli. He had a very serious and heartfelt argument about Morsi which has now been entirely lost thanks to people using him as a sock puppet for their own personal hatred. It feels like a new low.

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BoreMeEditor BoreMeEditor (410 days ago)

Thanks for pointing out that the subtitles are fake. Video with correct subtitles: LINK

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Thanks for pointing out that the subtitles are fake. Video with correct subtitles: LINK

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Guest: PA (410 days ago)

Thanks, though it's curious you've merely added a line to the video description. Surely the line "Muslim meltdown after discovering the truth" is just completely inaccurate. Why hide from the truth? Why perpetuate a lie about some book? Ooh the irony is delicious.

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Thanks, though it's curious you've merely added a line to the video description. Surely the line "Muslim meltdown after discovering the truth" is just completely inaccurate. Why hide from the truth? Why perpetuate a lie about some book? Ooh the irony is delicious.

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BoreMeEditor BoreMeEditor (410 days ago)

I also added "(fake subtitles)" to the title.

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I also added "(fake subtitles)" to the title.

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Guest: Guesting (409 days ago)

Instead of taking it down. Very informative about you.

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Instead of taking it down. Very informative about you.

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Guest: FakeButNotWrong (410 days ago)

Subtitles may be fake but they speak the truth.

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Subtitles may be fake but they speak the truth.

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Guest: Guesting (409 days ago)

BoreMe editor... Please read the comment above. The ignorant people believe what they know are lies, once you serve it to them.

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BoreMe editor... Please read the comment above. The ignorant people believe what they know are lies, once you serve it to them.

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TheBob TheBob (410 days ago)

Fake subtitles or not, the video is being disseminated by Memri which is apparently a pro-Zionist front largely set up by Israeli military intelligence.

This is what the Guardian has said about Memri. LINK

So, Boreme, do you not think you should take down the fake subtitles?

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Original comment

Fake subtitles or not, the video is being disseminated by Memri which is apparently a pro-Zionist front largely set up by Israeli military intelligence.

This is what the Guardian has said about Memri. LINK

So, Boreme, do you not think you should take down the fake subtitles?

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Guest: (410 days ago)

Bob, you may as well go to mass and challenge transubstantiation.

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Bob, you may as well go to mass and challenge transubstantiation.

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BoreMeEditor BoreMeEditor (410 days ago)

No I disagree. Should BoreMe remove every Fox News clip?

The fact that this Memri clip has been doctored reminds people that translations cannot always be trusted. And a conversation has begun. Talking is better than censorship.

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No I disagree. Should BoreMe remove every Fox News clip?

The fact that this Memri clip has been doctored reminds people that translations cannot always be trusted. And a conversation has begun. Talking is better than censorship.

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Guest: (410 days ago)

So if you're interested in honesty and conversation, why wouldn't you now rename the clip to something like "Morsi opponent has breakdown on Egyptian TV - fake subtitles", or even "Popular interview clip edited to offend Islam"? Surely there are plenty of videos of former Muslims renouncing the faith - why post a fake one? Doesn't it remind us that video descriptions (including yours) can't be trusted any more than translations?

I realise you have opinions to promote and a readership to satisfy, but why use deliberately misleading descriptions? That's not a rhetorical question.

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So if you're interested in honesty and conversation, why wouldn't you now rename the clip to something like "Morsi opponent has breakdown on Egyptian TV - fake subtitles", or even "Popular interview clip edited to offend Islam"? Surely there are plenty of videos of former Muslims renouncing the faith - why post a fake one? Doesn't it remind us that video descriptions (including yours) can't be trusted any more than translations?

I realise you have opinions to promote and a readership to satisfy, but why use deliberately misleading descriptions? That's not a rhetorical question.

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BoreMeEditor BoreMeEditor (410 days ago)

Because this was not posted on BoreMe as a fake. To change the title as you suggest loses the sense the comments. Someone new to this post would think: why is everyone going on about fake subtitles when it's already explained in the description.

It's got nothing to do with promoting an opinion or satisfying a readership. That's what you are trying to do.

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Because this was not posted on BoreMe as a fake. To change the title as you suggest loses the sense the comments. Someone new to this post would think: why is everyone going on about fake subtitles when it's already explained in the description.

It's got nothing to do with promoting an opinion or satisfying a readership. That's what you are trying to do.

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Guest: PA (410 days ago)

The description "An Arab TV station discussed J.K Sheindlin's controversial book 'The People Vs Muhammad'. This was the aftermath" is just a lie, right? Even if you've added 'fake subtitles'. I can understand falling for it and posting it unawares, but as you know it's untrue, I find it fascinating that you would let it stand. And your reasoning? Because you uploaded it with that deceptive description, once I had pointed that out, you had to maintain it so as to make the only two comments before mine make sense? Really curious.

I'm not promoting any opinion (I haven't mentioned my beliefs), and unlike you I do not have a readership here that I am dependent upon. My views on Islam simply aren't relevant on this thread. I was merely calling out a manipulative hoax for what it was, and thereby exercising the critical discretion that perhaps should have been exercised in the first place, assuming you didn't intend to mislead your readership. Anyway, it's your site, post what you like of course.

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Original comment

The description "An Arab TV station discussed J.K Sheindlin's controversial book 'The People Vs Muhammad'. This was the aftermath" is just a lie, right? Even if you've added 'fake subtitles'. I can understand falling for it and posting it unawares, but as you know it's untrue, I find it fascinating that you would let it stand. And your reasoning? Because you uploaded it with that deceptive description, once I had pointed that out, you had to maintain it so as to make the only two comments before mine make sense? Really curious.

I'm not promoting any opinion (I haven't mentioned my beliefs), and unlike you I do not have a readership here that I am dependent upon. My views on Islam simply aren't relevant on this thread. I was merely calling out a manipulative hoax for what it was, and thereby exercising the critical discretion that perhaps should have been exercised in the first place, assuming you didn't intend to mislead your readership. Anyway, it's your site, post what you like of course.

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Guest: (411 days ago)

Finally! At long last! Poor man I do feel for him to have his whole faith found to be a lie.

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Finally! At long last! Poor man I do feel for him to have his whole faith found to be a lie.

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Guest: PA (410 days ago)

Another follower duped. And I'm not talking about Al-Khouli.

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Another follower duped. And I'm not talking about Al-Khouli.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (411 days ago)

I wonder if he is now an atheist, or did he switch to another religion.

That's if he's still alive of course.

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I wonder if he is now an atheist, or did he switch to another religion.

That's if he's still alive of course.

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Guest: PA (410 days ago)

I am delighted and totally unsurprised that you were taken in, Walt.

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I am delighted and totally unsurprised that you were taken in, Walt.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (410 days ago)

Fair enough, Arabic is not my strong point.

What fascinates me is that you are not a Muslim, therefore I presume you believe that Mohammad made it all up, yet you find it so hard to call the Qu'ran nonsense. Why?

You are atheist with all established religions, and agnostic about 'supreme beings' in other space-time continuums outside of human comprehension - which weirdly is also my position.

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Fair enough, Arabic is not my strong point.

What fascinates me is that you are not a Muslim, therefore I presume you believe that Mohammad made it all up, yet you find it so hard to call the Qu'ran nonsense. Why?

You are atheist with all established religions, and agnostic about 'supreme beings' in other space-time continuums outside of human comprehension - which weirdly is also my position.

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Guest: PA (410 days ago)

No kidding. Arabic is hardly my strong point either, but basic critical (or impartial) thinking should lead you to question this video.

Enough with the distraction. This isn't about whether I can call something nonsense or not - this was about highlighting the way that people with an agenda can fool gullible people who are desperate to believe something, with very little effort. Furthermore, how that lie can then be disseminated to congregations of like-minded people (who choose not to scrutinise it) to reinforce their belief set and even make money (note the Amazon link). Remind you of anything? As far as I'm concerned, that's the be-all and end-all of this matter.

Tempting though it is, we know where any broader conversation ends up. If you haven't gathered my beliefs by now (and you clearly haven't), you never will. As you'll remember, I consider you to be quite a fervent believer (of course you'd disagree), and poles apart from my agnosticism. Therefore, I believe our views are incommensurable and I see little point in trying once again to explain them to you.

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No kidding. Arabic is hardly my strong point either, but basic critical (or impartial) thinking should lead you to question this video.

Enough with the distraction. This isn't about whether I can call something nonsense or not - this was about highlighting the way that people with an agenda can fool gullible people who are desperate to believe something, with very little effort. Furthermore, how that lie can then be disseminated to congregations of like-minded people (who choose not to scrutinise it) to reinforce their belief set and even make money (note the Amazon link). Remind you of anything? As far as I'm concerned, that's the be-all and end-all of this matter.

Tempting though it is, we know where any broader conversation ends up. If you haven't gathered my beliefs by now (and you clearly haven't), you never will. As you'll remember, I consider you to be quite a fervent believer (of course you'd disagree), and poles apart from my agnosticism. Therefore, I believe our views are incommensurable and I see little point in trying once again to explain them to you.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (409 days ago)

What bugs me is that you believe all established religions are nonsense, yet you call anyone who thinks the same but expresses it more forcibly, racist, bigoted, or ignorant. That is dishonest.

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What bugs me is that you believe all established religions are nonsense, yet you call anyone who thinks the same but expresses it more forcibly, racist, bigoted, or ignorant. That is dishonest.

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Guest: PA (409 days ago)

I repeat, this thread is not about my beliefs - stop trying to work in a distraction. Here is a wilful piece of deception that entirely duped you, unscrutinised by complacent viewers, designed by liars trying to misrepresent Muslims and make money, and then perpetuated by this site - a hoax the like of which you would condemn absolutely if it had come from any remotely religious source. THAT is dishonest, and altogether cowardly of you not to challenge it. But as I said, I didn't really expect of you. I've learned.

It seems you're more interested in dragging out the same tired debate about religion in general. I suspect you're misrepresenting me in order to get a reaction; I have never described religion as 'nonsense'. You've tried to pin that on me before - my response then was "religions are generally positive and benevolent cultural practices of guidance and self-discipline that aim to describe something profound and true yet unscientific. Not exactly 'bullshit'." And I'll now add - just to make it crystal clear for you - not exactly 'nonsense' either. Anyway, I'm not going to dig all this up again. Just re-read the countless other threads.

Yes, I call out people who make racial slurs against Arabs (or go to lengths to defend such slurs) as racist. Crazy, right? I call out people who are aggressively intolerant of the beliefs of others, even when it doesn't affect them, as bigots. I call out people who criticise the Quran for for reasons such as 'it has the death penalty for apostates', or because they don't understand the differences between hadith and sunnahs, as ignorant. These are not more forcible versions of what I believe. They are polar opposites. If you can't see that not-so-subtle difference, I can't help you.

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I repeat, this thread is not about my beliefs - stop trying to work in a distraction. Here is a wilful piece of deception that entirely duped you, unscrutinised by complacent viewers, designed by liars trying to misrepresent Muslims and make money, and then perpetuated by this site - a hoax the like of which you would condemn absolutely if it had come from any remotely religious source. THAT is dishonest, and altogether cowardly of you not to challenge it. But as I said, I didn't really expect of you. I've learned.

It seems you're more interested in dragging out the same tired debate about religion in general. I suspect you're misrepresenting me in order to get a reaction; I have never described religion as 'nonsense'. You've tried to pin that on me before - my response then was "religions are generally positive and benevolent cultural practices of guidance and self-discipline that aim to describe something profound and true yet unscientific. Not exactly 'bullshit'." And I'll now add - just to make it crystal clear for you - not exactly 'nonsense' either. Anyway, I'm not going to dig all this up again. Just re-read the countless other threads.

Yes, I call out people who make racial slurs against Arabs (or go to lengths to defend such slurs) as racist. Crazy, right? I call out people who are aggressively intolerant of the beliefs of others, even when it doesn't affect them, as bigots. I call out people who criticise the Quran for for reasons such as 'it has the death penalty for apostates', or because they don't understand the differences between hadith and sunnahs, as ignorant. These are not more forcible versions of what I believe. They are polar opposites. If you can't see that not-so-subtle difference, I can't help you.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (409 days ago)

I was not trying to work in a distraction, it was intended. No one else on BoreMe winds me up like you do. Probably best to leave it at that before we do a UKIP and one of us ends up in hospital. Do have the last word if you want.

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I was not trying to work in a distraction, it was intended. No one else on BoreMe winds me up like you do. Probably best to leave it at that before we do a UKIP and one of us ends up in hospital. Do have the last word if you want.

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Guest: Guesting (409 days ago)

Walter, if you have the chance, please read the conversation with PA once more and see if you might lose track of the important aspect here instead of defending your original post: the need to avoid unnecessary hate and conflict between people of any religion or belief.

I have been an atheist for nearly 50 years of my life, and I have been a scientist for nearly 30 of them. But I think some of my fellow atheists act like fanatics when dealing with people of other beliefs.

Atheism should result in arrogance or fanatism. Atheism should not resemble religion. Even less so, it should result in accepting hate speach or other forms of attempts to degrade other groups, not even the type the BoreMe editor contributes with.

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Walter, if you have the chance, please read the conversation with PA once more and see if you might lose track of the important aspect here instead of defending your original post: the need to avoid unnecessary hate and conflict between people of any religion or belief.

I have been an atheist for nearly 50 years of my life, and I have been a scientist for nearly 30 of them. But I think some of my fellow atheists act like fanatics when dealing with people of other beliefs.

Atheism should result in arrogance or fanatism. Atheism should not resemble religion. Even less so, it should result in accepting hate speach or other forms of attempts to degrade other groups, not even the type the BoreMe editor contributes with.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (409 days ago)

I believe nonsense should be called out, not justified.

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I believe nonsense should be called out, not justified.

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Guest: (409 days ago)

Ha ha!! ... what a joke when 4 comments in you have still failed to call out the nonsense in the clip. I guess that the kind of nonsense you approve of.

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Ha ha!! ... what a joke when 4 comments in you have still failed to call out the nonsense in the clip. I guess that the kind of nonsense you approve of.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (409 days ago)

Try and look at it from my point of view. I'm not a Muslim, so I don't believe an angel revealed anything to Mohammad. I don't even believe angels exist. So the logical conclusion for me, is that Mohammad made it all up.

Is it plausible that a Muslim man would get so angry and animated after reading a book that convinced him angels don't exist? I think yes. The man would reach the same conclusion as me - that Mohammad made it up - and realise he's been living a lie his whole life.

Of course if I was a Muslim, I would believe the Angel Gabriel spoke to Mohammad, so I would probably come to the same conclusion as you - that the fake subtitles are nonsense and should be called out.

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Try and look at it from my point of view. I'm not a Muslim, so I don't believe an angel revealed anything to Mohammad. I don't even believe angels exist. So the logical conclusion for me, is that Mohammad made it all up.

Is it plausible that a Muslim man would get so angry and animated after reading a book that convinced him angels don't exist? I think yes. The man would reach the same conclusion as me - that Mohammad made it up - and realise he's been living a lie his whole life.

Of course if I was a Muslim, I would believe the Angel Gabriel spoke to Mohammad, so I would probably come to the same conclusion as you - that the fake subtitles are nonsense and should be called out.

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Guest: PA (408 days ago)

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the perfect example of confirmation bias: Apparently, if you're a Muslim, you will question the hoax, whereas if you're anti-Muslim, you will believe it (despite any other clues). In reality, I wonder how many people on here who have challenged it are in fact Muslim, or whether they just possess better critical thinking skills.

Anyway, it's a frank confession from you Walter (even if you didn't intend it), and a healthy reminder that New Atheists aren't as sceptical, rational, or factual as they like to claim - if something is 'plausible' and fits with what they already believe, it'll do.

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And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the perfect example of confirmation bias: Apparently, if you're a Muslim, you will question the hoax, whereas if you're anti-Muslim, you will believe it (despite any other clues). In reality, I wonder how many people on here who have challenged it are in fact Muslim, or whether they just possess better critical thinking skills.

Anyway, it's a frank confession from you Walter (even if you didn't intend it), and a healthy reminder that New Atheists aren't as sceptical, rational, or factual as they like to claim - if something is 'plausible' and fits with what they already believe, it'll do.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (408 days ago)

Please stop being sloppy. I'm talking about questioning the content of the hoax (ie. the words of the fake subtitles), not whether or not it is a hoax. I thought that was bleeding obvious.

A Muslim will question whether Mohammad made everything up. A non-Muslim will believe that Mohammad did make it up. So YOU, as a non-Muslim, believe that Mohammad made it up.

Not sure why you slipped in "anti-Muslim". I guess that's the dishonesty in you seeping out through your pores.

ReplyVote up (87)down (101)
Original comment

Please stop being sloppy. I'm talking about questioning the content of the hoax (ie. the words of the fake subtitles), not whether or not it is a hoax. I thought that was bleeding obvious.

A Muslim will question whether Mohammad made everything up. A non-Muslim will believe that Mohammad did make it up. So YOU, as a non-Muslim, believe that Mohammad made it up.

Not sure why you slipped in "anti-Muslim". I guess that's the dishonesty in you seeping out through your pores.

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Guest: PA (408 days ago)

Yes! Once again, you call me sloppy when you've failed to understand something. It's a very useful flag now I've learned to understand it. And now you have 'dishonest' as well to indicate when you're struggling. Thanks, I'm learning to interpret your tantrums and projections. You have these little tropes that you seem to depend on like a comfort blanket. I wonder when that PC gene of mine will make an appearance!

I'll explain it better for you. You wrote your confirmation bias comment in response to one that claimed "4 comments in you have still failed to call out the nonsense in the clip". The nonsense in question is the hoax itself, because that was the part of the clip you hadn't called out - whereas you had already expressed support for the content - the fake text. OK? Do you remember now? You said "Is it plausible that a Muslim man would get so angry and animated after reading a book that convinced him angels don't exist? I think yes," - and that was why you believed the interviewee had read the book, why you believed the subtitles, and why you believed they were the genuine opinion of the interviewee. It's why you fell for it hook, line and sinker. It's textbook confirmation bias, Walter. Are you really too proud to admit that? Get over yourself - lots of people show confirmation bias, particularly as regards entrenched mindsets.

Oh and I slipped in anti-Muslim, because Walter, as much as you dance around it and are scared to admit it, you are anti-Muslim. Shocking right? You're anti-religion in general, obviously. Deny it if you will, while accusing me of dishonesty! Your lack of self-awareness is mind-boggling.

But no, I get it. It's been a very frustrating thread for you, poor lad. First you fell headlong into a rather obvious hoax designed to fool gullible people. Then despite your alleged sensitivity to dishonesty, you still failed to call out its shockingly dishonest methods because you had so much invested in its conclusions. And then in a rather flustered effort to explain those conclusions (although you don't have conclusions, remember?!), you provided us with a textbook example of confirmation bias. A little embarassing for that sceptical, razor sharp, super-rational mind of yours, eh? Sorry, I don't really mean to rub it in, but from where I'm sitting it's all very funny.

So go on, tell me again how sloppy I am.

ReplyVote up (101)down (92)
Original comment

Yes! Once again, you call me sloppy when you've failed to understand something. It's a very useful flag now I've learned to understand it. And now you have 'dishonest' as well to indicate when you're struggling. Thanks, I'm learning to interpret your tantrums and projections. You have these little tropes that you seem to depend on like a comfort blanket. I wonder when that PC gene of mine will make an appearance!

I'll explain it better for you. You wrote your confirmation bias comment in response to one that claimed "4 comments in you have still failed to call out the nonsense in the clip". The nonsense in question is the hoax itself, because that was the part of the clip you hadn't called out - whereas you had already expressed support for the content - the fake text. OK? Do you remember now? You said "Is it plausible that a Muslim man would get so angry and animated after reading a book that convinced him angels don't exist? I think yes," - and that was why you believed the interviewee had read the book, why you believed the subtitles, and why you believed they were the genuine opinion of the interviewee. It's why you fell for it hook, line and sinker. It's textbook confirmation bias, Walter. Are you really too proud to admit that? Get over yourself - lots of people show confirmation bias, particularly as regards entrenched mindsets.

Oh and I slipped in anti-Muslim, because Walter, as much as you dance around it and are scared to admit it, you are anti-Muslim. Shocking right? You're anti-religion in general, obviously. Deny it if you will, while accusing me of dishonesty! Your lack of self-awareness is mind-boggling.

But no, I get it. It's been a very frustrating thread for you, poor lad. First you fell headlong into a rather obvious hoax designed to fool gullible people. Then despite your alleged sensitivity to dishonesty, you still failed to call out its shockingly dishonest methods because you had so much invested in its conclusions. And then in a rather flustered effort to explain those conclusions (although you don't have conclusions, remember?!), you provided us with a textbook example of confirmation bias. A little embarassing for that sceptical, razor sharp, super-rational mind of yours, eh? Sorry, I don't really mean to rub it in, but from where I'm sitting it's all very funny.

So go on, tell me again how sloppy I am.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (408 days ago)

When I read "the nonsense in question is the hoax itself" , I realised we are at cross purposes. The "nonsense" to me has always referred to the content of the fake subtitles. I wouldn't use the word "nonsense" to describe or comment on a hoax like this. Maybe I should have attended your school of text-analysis. I hope it was cheap.

This hoax is not about misrepresenting Ihab al-Khouli. Hardly anyone outside of Egypt has a clue or interest in who he is. It is simply a backdrop for the content of the subtitles. Ihab al-Khouli could have been anyone going apeshit in a newsroom somewhere in the Middle East.

So when the other poster wrote " 4 comments in you have still failed to call out the nonsense in the clip" , I assumed he wanted me to call out the what was written in the subtitles. But since I largely agree with them, they are not nonsense to me.

You believe the claims of truth in the Qu'ran are nonsense, but you choose to justify them by saying "religions are generally positive and benevolent cultural practices of guidance ..." I think that is dishonest. Honest would be "religion is nonsense but it can be positive for lots of people."

ReplyVote up (86)down (101)
Original comment

When I read "the nonsense in question is the hoax itself" , I realised we are at cross purposes. The "nonsense" to me has always referred to the content of the fake subtitles. I wouldn't use the word "nonsense" to describe or comment on a hoax like this. Maybe I should have attended your school of text-analysis. I hope it was cheap.

This hoax is not about misrepresenting Ihab al-Khouli. Hardly anyone outside of Egypt has a clue or interest in who he is. It is simply a backdrop for the content of the subtitles. Ihab al-Khouli could have been anyone going apeshit in a newsroom somewhere in the Middle East.

So when the other poster wrote " 4 comments in you have still failed to call out the nonsense in the clip" , I assumed he wanted me to call out the what was written in the subtitles. But since I largely agree with them, they are not nonsense to me.

You believe the claims of truth in the Qu'ran are nonsense, but you choose to justify them by saying "religions are generally positive and benevolent cultural practices of guidance ..." I think that is dishonest. Honest would be "religion is nonsense but it can be positive for lots of people."

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Guest: Proud Agnostic (408 days ago)
Latest comment:

I think you're being disingenuous in the extreme. I'd hope you know perfectly well that the controversy of this video is not about whether the actual words the man is saying could be true for someone else. The controversy is the hoax itself which (to most rational and non religious minds) is flagrantly dishonest. It's not created for humour like Hitler videos, it's created to deceive and certain vulnerable and uncritical minds will fall for it. The nonsense is in claiming this is a "Muslim meltdown after discovering the truth", a man renouncing his faith, that this former man of faith has been persuaded by anti-Muslim rhetoric and a feeble self-published book, that this issue was big enough to be on Egyptian TV, etc. etc. That, Walter, is the nonsense at stake, and the nonsense that you still just cannot bring yourself to condemn - as mind-blowingly obvious as it seems to the rest of us. So instead of us 'getting over it', why don't you be a big brave lad and accept that you were fooled by a manipulative hoax, and that such deliberate attempts to deceive are wrong. After that, you can even try to accept that others of us who were not duped so easily aren't Muslim or even Arabic speakers. Ooh, would your pride be injured? Maybe you're not ready for that, but I'll have a slow clap waiting just in case.

If you can only describe me as dishonest by projecting your beliefs onto me, then you can be sure the dishonesty is on your part: Take note, I don't believe all or even most of the claims of truth in the Qu'ran are nonsense. Similarly, if I believe religions are positive and benevolent, then nonsense (implying a lack of meaning of worthlessness) is obviously not an adjective I would use. Perhaps you'd like to redefine it for us. Also, as I've certainly said before, if the descriptions of god in mainstream religions don't seem entirely accurate to me personally, that does not mean that the whole religion is nonsense, nor even that their god does not exist in a different form. Over thousands of words I've punched into this site, I don't think my views are particularly obscure... I'm baffled why you find them so confusing. Yes, maybe you should have attended a school of text analysis - any would have been a start. Or even a dissertation based degree course.

But anyway, much as you and the video creators want to comandeer the narrative to discuss Islam in general and to beat that same old tired drum, that isn't what this is about. It should have been about Morsi, but now it's about someone who deliberately and knowlingly manipulates the truth in order to encourage or create a belief, and make money. So I'll repeat, is that not something you can happily and easily describe as wrong or nonsense? I mean really, if your belief set is preventing you from labelling something that you would otherwise label quite freely, I'm afraid you're pretty deep in there. Need a hand?

ReplyVote up (101)down (96)
Original comment
Latest comment:

I think you're being disingenuous in the extreme. I'd hope you know perfectly well that the controversy of this video is not about whether the actual words the man is saying could be true for someone else. The controversy is the hoax itself which (to most rational and non religious minds) is flagrantly dishonest. It's not created for humour like Hitler videos, it's created to deceive and certain vulnerable and uncritical minds will fall for it. The nonsense is in claiming this is a "Muslim meltdown after discovering the truth", a man renouncing his faith, that this former man of faith has been persuaded by anti-Muslim rhetoric and a feeble self-published book, that this issue was big enough to be on Egyptian TV, etc. etc. That, Walter, is the nonsense at stake, and the nonsense that you still just cannot bring yourself to condemn - as mind-blowingly obvious as it seems to the rest of us. So instead of us 'getting over it', why don't you be a big brave lad and accept that you were fooled by a manipulative hoax, and that such deliberate attempts to deceive are wrong. After that, you can even try to accept that others of us who were not duped so easily aren't Muslim or even Arabic speakers. Ooh, would your pride be injured? Maybe you're not ready for that, but I'll have a slow clap waiting just in case.

If you can only describe me as dishonest by projecting your beliefs onto me, then you can be sure the dishonesty is on your part: Take note, I don't believe all or even most of the claims of truth in the Qu'ran are nonsense. Similarly, if I believe religions are positive and benevolent, then nonsense (implying a lack of meaning of worthlessness) is obviously not an adjective I would use. Perhaps you'd like to redefine it for us. Also, as I've certainly said before, if the descriptions of god in mainstream religions don't seem entirely accurate to me personally, that does not mean that the whole religion is nonsense, nor even that their god does not exist in a different form. Over thousands of words I've punched into this site, I don't think my views are particularly obscure... I'm baffled why you find them so confusing. Yes, maybe you should have attended a school of text analysis - any would have been a start. Or even a dissertation based degree course.

But anyway, much as you and the video creators want to comandeer the narrative to discuss Islam in general and to beat that same old tired drum, that isn't what this is about. It should have been about Morsi, but now it's about someone who deliberately and knowlingly manipulates the truth in order to encourage or create a belief, and make money. So I'll repeat, is that not something you can happily and easily describe as wrong or nonsense? I mean really, if your belief set is preventing you from labelling something that you would otherwise label quite freely, I'm afraid you're pretty deep in there. Need a hand?

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Guest: (408 days ago)

I AM NOT A MUSLIM EITHER you dumbass. What is wrong with you?? THIS ISNT ABOUT ISLAM!! You are obsesed. T'he difference between us is that i think ALL nonsense should be called out but you STILL cant do it even when you know its a fake!! If it is a hoax, if it is tricking stupid people, then it doesnt matter if i agree with the beliefs. IT IS WRONG. You are happy with lies so long as they support your beliefs not theres.

ReplyVote up (101)down (94)
Original comment

I AM NOT A MUSLIM EITHER you dumbass. What is wrong with you?? THIS ISNT ABOUT ISLAM!! You are obsesed. T'he difference between us is that i think ALL nonsense should be called out but you STILL cant do it even when you know its a fake!! If it is a hoax, if it is tricking stupid people, then it doesnt matter if i agree with the beliefs. IT IS WRONG. You are happy with lies so long as they support your beliefs not theres.

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WalterEgo WalterEgo (408 days ago)

I can't believe how you and PA are getting so worked up over the fact that this is a hoax. Get over it guys, this is the internet 2016. It is clearly not meant to misrepresent Ihab al-Khouli, but to RE-present Islam. As I said to PA, it could be anyone going apeshit in a newsroom somewhere in the Middle East. Some atheist just got creative and re-subtitled a suitable clip. It's a technique used in comedy all the time. Do you get angry over the "Hitler Reacts" videos, for example: LINK

As for calling out all nonsense, that's just silly. Would you call out Father Christmas to a four-year-old?

ReplyVote up (94)down (101)
Original comment

I can't believe how you and PA are getting so worked up over the fact that this is a hoax. Get over it guys, this is the internet 2016. It is clearly not meant to misrepresent Ihab al-Khouli, but to RE-present Islam. As I said to PA, it could be anyone going apeshit in a newsroom somewhere in the Middle East. Some atheist just got creative and re-subtitled a suitable clip. It's a technique used in comedy all the time. Do you get angry over the "Hitler Reacts" videos, for example: LINK

As for calling out all nonsense, that's just silly. Would you call out Father Christmas to a four-year-old?

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