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Firefighters react to family with no insurance

Firefighters react to family with no insurance

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Guest: Socialist (77 days ago)

Hardy, har, har.  The USA, being a socialist country, gets free access to police and firefighters.  There is no need for insurance for this situation.  This is unlike the UK where people can park illegally in your commercial land and it’s outside the jurisdiction of the police so private citizens write tickets for as much money as they want.

Original comment

Hardy, har, har.  The USA, being a socialist country, gets free access to police and firefighters.  There is no need for insurance for this situation.  This is unlike the UK where people can park illegally in your commercial land and it’s outside the jurisdiction of the police so private citizens write tickets for as much money as they want.

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Guest: (71 days ago)

Actually it is not a free service with the police and the fire etc. People pay for it through their taxes just like the free NHS in the UK.

 

Original comment

Actually it is not a free service with the police and the fire etc. People pay for it through their taxes just like the free NHS in the UK.

 

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Guest: (71 days ago)
Latest comment:

Not always.  Many people have to pay a monthly sum whether they need the service or not.  

Unlike the NHS, the US emergency services can refuse to help you if you have not kept up with payments.  

Appalling.

Original comment
Latest comment:

Not always.  Many people have to pay a monthly sum whether they need the service or not.  

Unlike the NHS, the US emergency services can refuse to help you if you have not kept up with payments.  

Appalling.

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Guest: Sabre Wolf (77 days ago)

"joke". google it.

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"joke". google it.

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Guest: (77 days ago)

Hahahaha someone was triggered!  Oh yes, in the good ole USA where private citizens can stop and search you and detain you, where private citizens can own assault rifles, where the government has the right to dictate how private businesses how they can park on their own land, where businesses can't enforce mutually agreed terms and conditions for accessing their property, where taxpayers have to pay for armed police to issue fines for minor parking infringements, and where you only have a "right" to access emergency healthcare for free, and then you get billed later.  Sounds amazing!! Where do we sign?

Original comment

Hahahaha someone was triggered!  Oh yes, in the good ole USA where private citizens can stop and search you and detain you, where private citizens can own assault rifles, where the government has the right to dictate how private businesses how they can park on their own land, where businesses can't enforce mutually agreed terms and conditions for accessing their property, where taxpayers have to pay for armed police to issue fines for minor parking infringements, and where you only have a "right" to access emergency healthcare for free, and then you get billed later.  Sounds amazing!! Where do we sign?

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Guest: Not a UK resident (77 days ago)

“where private citizens can stop and search you and detain you”  False.  Even police are not allowed to search you unless they have reasonable cause and are in the process of arresting you.  See amendment #4 regarding illegal search and seizures.

“where private citizens can own assault rifles”  We just call them rifles.  Do you call a 6-shooter pistol an assault gun?  This is our 2nd amendment that allows us to protect ourself.  You are also allowed to own guns and rifles in the UK.  I am glad that I can defend myself against an intruder without having to wait half an hour for the police to arrive.  By that time, I would be dead.  At least being armed gives me some fighting chance to save myself.

“where the government has the right to dictate how private businesses how they can park on their own land”  For businesses where the public has access, yes.  It is for safety and other reasons such as providing the necessary number of parking stalls for handicapped people.  There are fire lanes in front of many buildings for safety purposes such as allowing emergency vehicles to gain access.  We don’t want a Grenfell tower incident over here so we apply safety to places where the general public is allowed to go.  The police cannot enforce anything about my private property where I live.  I can park on the grass, in my driveway, or in the garage.  But if I park in the public street, then I need to obey the laws such as not allowing cars to park in front of fire hydrants.  I find it incredible that the UK has no such laws.  

By the way, when we have a fire in the USA, we vacate our buildings.  We do not stay inside until we are told to leave.  The UK has an asinine shelter-in-place policy.


“where businesses can't enforce mutually agreed terms and conditions for accessing their property”  False.  You may reserve your parking for your own customers.  I’ve seen cases where companies towed cars where non-customers parked in their lot but left to go shopping in some other business.  You usually need a sign warning people of that before hand though.

“where taxpayers have to pay for armed police to issue fines for minor parking infringements”  Although armed police do have the jurisdiction to write parking tickets, they have better things to do most of the time.  If you’re parking in a handicapped parking spot without a handicapped permit and someone is pissed at you for it and calls the police, you will probably get a $250 to $500 ticket.  In some places, they have dedicated parking enforcement officers who can only do parking related enforcement because they are not sworn officers.  They cannot write tickets for anything else such as jay walking.  And when you say taxpayers are paying for this service, keep in mind they do collect money for those tickets which is more than enough to cover the time the officer spent to write the ticket.  This means the offender is who pays for it plus punitive extras.


“right to access emergency healthcare for free, and then you get billed later.”  Is it free in the UK for you to visit a doctor and get a bandaid?  It’s my understanding that you have a co-pay when you visit a doctor.  And are your prescription drugs free?  How do your doctors get paid since it’s free?  I find it humorous that you think taking tax out of every pay check to pay for healthcare services even if you don’t use it is called free.     Strange you feel healthcare is a right but you don’t believe housing, food, or water is a right.

Original comment

“where private citizens can stop and search you and detain you”  False.  Even police are not allowed to search you unless they have reasonable cause and are in the process of arresting you.  See amendment #4 regarding illegal search and seizures.

“where private citizens can own assault rifles”  We just call them rifles.  Do you call a 6-shooter pistol an assault gun?  This is our 2nd amendment that allows us to protect ourself.  You are also allowed to own guns and rifles in the UK.  I am glad that I can defend myself against an intruder without having to wait half an hour for the police to arrive.  By that time, I would be dead.  At least being armed gives me some fighting chance to save myself.

“where the government has the right to dictate how private businesses how they can park on their own land”  For businesses where the public has access, yes.  It is for safety and other reasons such as providing the necessary number of parking stalls for handicapped people.  There are fire lanes in front of many buildings for safety purposes such as allowing emergency vehicles to gain access.  We don’t want a Grenfell tower incident over here so we apply safety to places where the general public is allowed to go.  The police cannot enforce anything about my private property where I live.  I can park on the grass, in my driveway, or in the garage.  But if I park in the public street, then I need to obey the laws such as not allowing cars to park in front of fire hydrants.  I find it incredible that the UK has no such laws.  

By the way, when we have a fire in the USA, we vacate our buildings.  We do not stay inside until we are told to leave.  The UK has an asinine shelter-in-place policy.


“where businesses can't enforce mutually agreed terms and conditions for accessing their property”  False.  You may reserve your parking for your own customers.  I’ve seen cases where companies towed cars where non-customers parked in their lot but left to go shopping in some other business.  You usually need a sign warning people of that before hand though.

“where taxpayers have to pay for armed police to issue fines for minor parking infringements”  Although armed police do have the jurisdiction to write parking tickets, they have better things to do most of the time.  If you’re parking in a handicapped parking spot without a handicapped permit and someone is pissed at you for it and calls the police, you will probably get a $250 to $500 ticket.  In some places, they have dedicated parking enforcement officers who can only do parking related enforcement because they are not sworn officers.  They cannot write tickets for anything else such as jay walking.  And when you say taxpayers are paying for this service, keep in mind they do collect money for those tickets which is more than enough to cover the time the officer spent to write the ticket.  This means the offender is who pays for it plus punitive extras.


“right to access emergency healthcare for free, and then you get billed later.”  Is it free in the UK for you to visit a doctor and get a bandaid?  It’s my understanding that you have a co-pay when you visit a doctor.  And are your prescription drugs free?  How do your doctors get paid since it’s free?  I find it humorous that you think taking tax out of every pay check to pay for healthcare services even if you don’t use it is called free.     Strange you feel healthcare is a right but you don’t believe housing, food, or water is a right.

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CANCEL
Guest: (77 days ago)

OK this one is even easier than usual.  Happy to rattle down your list:

"Even police are not allowed to search you".  I said that private citizens can stop and search you and detain you.  Do you know what 'private citizens' means?  It was a phrase you used, and it doesn't cover police.  The fourth amendment only applies to government agents.  Didn't you realise that?  Wow, just wow.

"We just call them rifles".  Semantics, but in short, you're agreeing.  Oh, the defence argument.  That's why there's such a tiny death toll from firearms in the USA - because everyone just defends themselves from the bad guys.  I see.  But I understand why you have no faith in your police - I wouldn't either.  Maybe they read your comment where you pretended to be from an ethnic minority.

Grenfell Tower had nothing to do with access to private property but I'm happy to talk fires.  34 US states have no smoke and fire regulation whatsoever.  Wow, double wow.  In those that do, much of it only applies within certain cities, or to new builds, or to those trying to sell a house.  Despite catastrophes like the Oakland Warehouse fire (36 dead), and the Station Nightclub fire (100 dead), sprinkler systems and smoke alarms are still not mandatory across the USA.

"We do not stay inside until we are told to leave".  Wrong again.  The NFPA state that in high-rise buildings "occupants... might be instructed to stay where they are and await further instruction", and the 'remain-in-place' strategy is a common alternative to evacuation (NFPA, 'Emergency Action Plan High-Rise').  There was even a case in The Strand, NYC, where a resident ignored the 'Stay in place' signs affixed to doors, and died in the stairwell from smoke inhalation.  The FDNY Chief at the time said "99.9% of the time you're safer in your fireproof apartment."  Perhaps he was a Brit in disguise.

Interestingly, the death toll from fires in the UK has shown a steady decreasing trend year on year over the past decade other than small blips with Grenfell (Google "full fact how many people die in fires"), whereas in the USA for the same period it has been increasing year on year (Google usfa. fema. gov).  

As for parking, "False... You usually need a sign warning people of that before hand though."  Aha.  So that is same as the UK after-all.  I thought that was what you were complaining about.  Here, where you enter a car park there will be a sign detailing the conditions of use and the penalty, and by using the car park you have agreed.  It's a private agreement between the user and the business, and we wouldn't have our highly trained police officers patrolling private car parks. "Armed police do have the jurisdiction to write parking tickets".  Thanks.  Absolutely insane.

"They have dedicated parking enforcement officers who... are not sworn officers" - wait, what?  Not police officers?  You mean you DO have "private citizens write tickets"?  At this point you might need to pretend to be a different person than the person who started this thread, otherwise you risk looking like an idiot again.  

As for healthcare, Google 'free at the point of delivery'.  Yes, you can go to a minor injuries clinic and get a free 'bandaid' if you want.  No, you don't pay anything when you see a doctor.  Yes, housing and food are also rights, and if you can't afford them you can access them for free.  Interesting that you spend tax dollars on sugar or testing whether gingerbread houses are earthquake resistant, but you don't like the idea of them being spent on healthcare.  Go figure.

Piece of cake.  Any other simple things I can help you with?

Original comment

OK this one is even easier than usual.  Happy to rattle down your list:

"Even police are not allowed to search you".  I said that private citizens can stop and search you and detain you.  Do you know what 'private citizens' means?  It was a phrase you used, and it doesn't cover police.  The fourth amendment only applies to government agents.  Didn't you realise that?  Wow, just wow.

"We just call them rifles".  Semantics, but in short, you're agreeing.  Oh, the defence argument.  That's why there's such a tiny death toll from firearms in the USA - because everyone just defends themselves from the bad guys.  I see.  But I understand why you have no faith in your police - I wouldn't either.  Maybe they read your comment where you pretended to be from an ethnic minority.

Grenfell Tower had nothing to do with access to private property but I'm happy to talk fires.  34 US states have no smoke and fire regulation whatsoever.  Wow, double wow.  In those that do, much of it only applies within certain cities, or to new builds, or to those trying to sell a house.  Despite catastrophes like the Oakland Warehouse fire (36 dead), and the Station Nightclub fire (100 dead), sprinkler systems and smoke alarms are still not mandatory across the USA.

"We do not stay inside until we are told to leave".  Wrong again.  The NFPA state that in high-rise buildings "occupants... might be instructed to stay where they are and await further instruction", and the 'remain-in-place' strategy is a common alternative to evacuation (NFPA, 'Emergency Action Plan High-Rise').  There was even a case in The Strand, NYC, where a resident ignored the 'Stay in place' signs affixed to doors, and died in the stairwell from smoke inhalation.  The FDNY Chief at the time said "99.9% of the time you're safer in your fireproof apartment."  Perhaps he was a Brit in disguise.

Interestingly, the death toll from fires in the UK has shown a steady decreasing trend year on year over the past decade other than small blips with Grenfell (Google "full fact how many people die in fires"), whereas in the USA for the same period it has been increasing year on year (Google usfa. fema. gov).  

As for parking, "False... You usually need a sign warning people of that before hand though."  Aha.  So that is same as the UK after-all.  I thought that was what you were complaining about.  Here, where you enter a car park there will be a sign detailing the conditions of use and the penalty, and by using the car park you have agreed.  It's a private agreement between the user and the business, and we wouldn't have our highly trained police officers patrolling private car parks. "Armed police do have the jurisdiction to write parking tickets".  Thanks.  Absolutely insane.

"They have dedicated parking enforcement officers who... are not sworn officers" - wait, what?  Not police officers?  You mean you DO have "private citizens write tickets"?  At this point you might need to pretend to be a different person than the person who started this thread, otherwise you risk looking like an idiot again.  

As for healthcare, Google 'free at the point of delivery'.  Yes, you can go to a minor injuries clinic and get a free 'bandaid' if you want.  No, you don't pay anything when you see a doctor.  Yes, housing and food are also rights, and if you can't afford them you can access them for free.  Interesting that you spend tax dollars on sugar or testing whether gingerbread houses are earthquake resistant, but you don't like the idea of them being spent on healthcare.  Go figure.

Piece of cake.  Any other simple things I can help you with?

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Guest: California Cop (76 days ago)

“I said that private citizens can stop and search you and detain you.”  Like I said before, even the police cannot do that.  You think I’ll let a private citizen get away with it?  Suppose that’s why we own guns here.  I’d have to shoot him in the face if someone tries to detain me and search me.  However, there are some reasonable situations where you can be detained by someone.  For example, if you’re stealing from Walmart, the security will stop you and hold you there until the police arrive.  But Walmart better be sure about that because if they detain the wrong person that wasn’t stealing, they can be held accountable in civil court.

“Semantics, but in short, you're agreeing.” Agreeing that both the USA and UK people are allowed to own guns and rifles.  Yes.

“But I understand why you have no faith in your police”  I have faith in the police but I don’t have faith that if someone is threatening me that I can call them and they will arrive in time to defuse the threat.  I’m pretty sure your police cannot make it to you any faster than in the USA but you’re just used to not defending yourself and don’t care.

“Maybe they read your comment where you pretended to be from an ethnic minority.” False, didn’t happen.  I never mentioned my ethnic background so I’m neither confirming nor denying that I am in a minority.

“34 US states have no smoke and fire regulation whatsoever.” False.  I didn’t check all the states for their particular regulations to debunk this because it’s so easy.  Obviously you don’t understand how the United States works.  We have a federal government, individual state governments, county governments, and city governments.  It is not necessary for all states to create laws or regulations that are covered at the federal level.  So now that you know that, check again for federal regulations and you will find it.  

“sprinkler systems and smoke alarms are still not mandatory across the USA.” Do you have a sprinkler system in your house?

“The NFPA state that in high-rise buildings”  Hahahaha, you just contradicted yourself.  First you say there’s 34 states that have no smoke and fire regulation whatsoever and then you mention a national program.  hehehe.  This makes me laugh.

“occupants... might be instructed to stay where they are and await further instruction”  You should read the whole paragraph because it also states “The occupants believed to be in the greatest potential danger are instructed to use the exit stairs to begin their descent. “  The document mentions reasons they might be asked to stay such as “stair travel is potentially dangerous.”  It also mentions the 1993 terrorist bombing of the world trade center as an example where it took 2 hours to evacuate because of the 5 million person-flights of stairs and some people do not have the physical capability to go down that many steps.  Those are extreme cases for extremely tall buildings.

Regarding your couple examples of people dying from smoke inhalation, that in my opinion, is similar to saying that some people died wearing their seat belt so nobody should wear seat belts.

“Aha.  So that is same as the UK after-all.” No.  My example is if your car gets towed.  The signs need a number of who to call so you can get your car back.  I asked someone for an example sign in the UK but nobody was willing or able to provide one. Here’s an example of a towing sign in Texas:
texastowingcompliance dot com/wp-content/uploads/20 14/05/Legal-Tow-Sign-e140 0872828827 dot jpg

If your car is towed or booted and the sign does not have all the correct information needed on it, you are entitled to sue for $1000 plus triple what you paid to retrieve your vehicle.  They take that very serious.  Now that I’ve explained one of our processes to you, explain yours.

“‘Armed police do have the jurisdiction to write parking tickets’.  Thanks.  Absolutely insane.”  Again, it’s a safety thing.  You can park your car in such a way that emergency vehicles are blocked and that can be a danger to the public.  We also give our handicapped people rights so if someone parks in one of their stalls without the proper permit, we will give them a ticket.  Our handicapped parking permits are given by the government so they are enforced by the government.  Would I have to get a handicapped parking permit from each private company in the UK?  That’s insane.

“wait, what?  Not police officers? “  I wish you could read so I wouldn’t have to repeat myself.  They do not have the same abilities as police officers.  They only have the right to write parking tickets.  What part of that don’t you understand?  

“private citizens write tickets?”  Parking enforcement officers are local government employees.  California has about 1,560 of them with a mean wage of $52,240 (in 2017).  “California police officers and sheriff's deputies received, on average, about $122,000 in total pay during 2017”  Hopefully this sheds some light on the differences.  More pay for a more difficult job requiring more training and more skills.  A police officer can do whatever a parking enforcement officer can do but not vice versa.

“free at the point of delivery” So you’re changing your story to say that your healthcare is not free.  Good to know.  You pay for it all your life so that if you need it some day in the future, you don’t have to pay for that particular instance.  I see you also avoided the discussion regarding prescription drugs.  You have to pay for drugs, optical services, and dental.  Having the necessary medicine to treat your issue, teeth, vision, food, water, or shelter doesn’t appear to be a right in the UK because you do have to pay for those but not for a bandaid.

 

Original comment

“I said that private citizens can stop and search you and detain you.”  Like I said before, even the police cannot do that.  You think I’ll let a private citizen get away with it?  Suppose that’s why we own guns here.  I’d have to shoot him in the face if someone tries to detain me and search me.  However, there are some reasonable situations where you can be detained by someone.  For example, if you’re stealing from Walmart, the security will stop you and hold you there until the police arrive.  But Walmart better be sure about that because if they detain the wrong person that wasn’t stealing, they can be held accountable in civil court.

“Semantics, but in short, you're agreeing.” Agreeing that both the USA and UK people are allowed to own guns and rifles.  Yes.

“But I understand why you have no faith in your police”  I have faith in the police but I don’t have faith that if someone is threatening me that I can call them and they will arrive in time to defuse the threat.  I’m pretty sure your police cannot make it to you any faster than in the USA but you’re just used to not defending yourself and don’t care.

“Maybe they read your comment where you pretended to be from an ethnic minority.” False, didn’t happen.  I never mentioned my ethnic background so I’m neither confirming nor denying that I am in a minority.

“34 US states have no smoke and fire regulation whatsoever.” False.  I didn’t check all the states for their particular regulations to debunk this because it’s so easy.  Obviously you don’t understand how the United States works.  We have a federal government, individual state governments, county governments, and city governments.  It is not necessary for all states to create laws or regulations that are covered at the federal level.  So now that you know that, check again for federal regulations and you will find it.  

“sprinkler systems and smoke alarms are still not mandatory across the USA.” Do you have a sprinkler system in your house?

“The NFPA state that in high-rise buildings”  Hahahaha, you just contradicted yourself.  First you say there’s 34 states that have no smoke and fire regulation whatsoever and then you mention a national program.  hehehe.  This makes me laugh.

“occupants... might be instructed to stay where they are and await further instruction”  You should read the whole paragraph because it also states “The occupants believed to be in the greatest potential danger are instructed to use the exit stairs to begin their descent. “  The document mentions reasons they might be asked to stay such as “stair travel is potentially dangerous.”  It also mentions the 1993 terrorist bombing of the world trade center as an example where it took 2 hours to evacuate because of the 5 million person-flights of stairs and some people do not have the physical capability to go down that many steps.  Those are extreme cases for extremely tall buildings.

Regarding your couple examples of people dying from smoke inhalation, that in my opinion, is similar to saying that some people died wearing their seat belt so nobody should wear seat belts.

“Aha.  So that is same as the UK after-all.” No.  My example is if your car gets towed.  The signs need a number of who to call so you can get your car back.  I asked someone for an example sign in the UK but nobody was willing or able to provide one. Here’s an example of a towing sign in Texas:
texastowingcompliance dot com/wp-content/uploads/20 14/05/Legal-Tow-Sign-e140 0872828827 dot jpg

If your car is towed or booted and the sign does not have all the correct information needed on it, you are entitled to sue for $1000 plus triple what you paid to retrieve your vehicle.  They take that very serious.  Now that I’ve explained one of our processes to you, explain yours.

“‘Armed police do have the jurisdiction to write parking tickets’.  Thanks.  Absolutely insane.”  Again, it’s a safety thing.  You can park your car in such a way that emergency vehicles are blocked and that can be a danger to the public.  We also give our handicapped people rights so if someone parks in one of their stalls without the proper permit, we will give them a ticket.  Our handicapped parking permits are given by the government so they are enforced by the government.  Would I have to get a handicapped parking permit from each private company in the UK?  That’s insane.

“wait, what?  Not police officers? “  I wish you could read so I wouldn’t have to repeat myself.  They do not have the same abilities as police officers.  They only have the right to write parking tickets.  What part of that don’t you understand?  

“private citizens write tickets?”  Parking enforcement officers are local government employees.  California has about 1,560 of them with a mean wage of $52,240 (in 2017).  “California police officers and sheriff's deputies received, on average, about $122,000 in total pay during 2017”  Hopefully this sheds some light on the differences.  More pay for a more difficult job requiring more training and more skills.  A police officer can do whatever a parking enforcement officer can do but not vice versa.

“free at the point of delivery” So you’re changing your story to say that your healthcare is not free.  Good to know.  You pay for it all your life so that if you need it some day in the future, you don’t have to pay for that particular instance.  I see you also avoided the discussion regarding prescription drugs.  You have to pay for drugs, optical services, and dental.  Having the necessary medicine to treat your issue, teeth, vision, food, water, or shelter doesn’t appear to be a right in the UK because you do have to pay for those but not for a bandaid.

 

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Guest: (76 days ago)

"Even the police cannot do that".  Concentrate, kid.  Just because the police aren't allowed to do something, doesn't mean nobody can.  I'm impressed I know more about your constitution than you do.  The security guards in Walmart and every other store are private citizens and are not bound by the Fourth Amendment.  So you're going to sue them or shoot them.  Good luck with that hahaha.  Do I think you'll let someone "get away with it"?  You don't have a choice, as usual.  Suck it up, right?

US police have to undergo specific training for handling their guns.  Civilians don't.  Amazing.  The beauty is, in the UK people can and do defend themselves all the time.  It's just we don't have to depend on firearms to do it.  It's that famous US cowardice again I guess.   Anyway, it's painfully clear that guns don't contribute to the safety of your country as your appalling levels of firearms deaths are uniquely bad.  But fine.  You're willing to pay with the lives of children in order to make yourself feel less scared of your own government.  OK.  

“34 US states have no smoke and fire regulation whatsoever.” False."  How far do you bend to avoid uncomfortable facts?  In your broken system, state legislature allows states to fill in the gaps of inefficient federal legislature - so how come so many states don't bother?  Look up Kidde dot com.  I know there are too many states for you to understand, but just to illustrate, tell me what sprinkler systems are required in Kansas or Alabama for all properties, federal legislation or state legislation.

“The NFPA state that in high-rise buildings... you just contradicted yourself."  Actually, my whole quote was "NFPA state that in high-rise buildings occupants MIGHT be instructed to stay where they are and await further instruction". Does that sound like a regulation to you?  'Might?'  It's not legislation, but it remains policy - an 'asinine' policy as you called it, before realising you have exactly the same!  Haha.  Oh wait, you do understand the difference between policy and legislation don't you?  Sorry, I sometimes make unfair assumptions about your education.

"The document mentions reasons they might be asked to stay" - yep, exactly the same as the Grenfell policy.  I thought you didn't want that?  Awkward.

"I asked someone for an example sign in the UK but nobody was willing"  So you seriously think I am willing to go to my nearest car park, photo the sign, upload it somewhere, and post that link here for you, only for you to squirm, deny it's representative, or just fail to reply like usual?  I know you struggle with using Google effectively, but just try this:  Think of a really clever set of keywords that would lead you to find a 'photo of a UK supermarket car park sign' (I gave you a little clue there!)  

I've already explained the system, it's really simple:  Go to private car park.  Read sign.  Sign tells you how and when to park, and the penalty for ignoring the sign.  Choose whether you still want to park there.  Ignore the sign, get the penalty.  

"Entitled to sue"?  That's cute.  In the UK, we are always entitled to sue.  There's never a guarantee of success, but using the civil courts isn't an 'entitlement'.  If the sign isn't there, isn't clear, is unreasonable, or unenforceable, you can take them to court.  

Sure, our police can get a car removed if it is dangerous - that WOULD be a safety issue.  Inconsiderate parking however is not and it's appalling that your armed police have to enforce that.  

"They do not have the same abilities as police officers.  They only have the right to write parking tickets."  I understand!!  That's brilliant!  You started off this thread complaining that in the UK, we have 'private citizens' (parking enforcement officers) that give out parking tickets instead of police.  Now you're explaining that in the USA, (as well as making armed police patrol parking regulations) you also have 'private citizens' (parking enforcement officers) that can give out parking tickets instead of police.  Hahahaha.  I love watching you tie yourself in knots.

“'Free at the point of delivery' So you’re changing your story to say that your healthcare is not free".  You really have basic issues with comprehension.  'Free at the point of delivery' is a description of how something is 'free'.  The clue is, it uses the word 'free'.  And yes, if you are on income support, home-based medicine, dental care, eyecare, food, water and shelter are also free.

In the USA, you are forced to pay for gingerbread house earthquake tests, and forced to pay for sugar you don't want, but you don't want to pay any extra to make sure every member of society can access cancer treatments?  Wow, just wow.

Look, I get it.  The NHS is the envy of the world, particularly of the USA, and despite countless attempts by your impotent government to achieve change, you still can't provide a basic minimum standard of care to all your citizens regardless of their income.  That's embarrassing, of course.  The Romans literally had a better system than yours.  But the key is to learn from the success of other countries instead of burying your head in the sand and pretending you're not failing.

Original comment

"Even the police cannot do that".  Concentrate, kid.  Just because the police aren't allowed to do something, doesn't mean nobody can.  I'm impressed I know more about your constitution than you do.  The security guards in Walmart and every other store are private citizens and are not bound by the Fourth Amendment.  So you're going to sue them or shoot them.  Good luck with that hahaha.  Do I think you'll let someone "get away with it"?  You don't have a choice, as usual.  Suck it up, right?

US police have to undergo specific training for handling their guns.  Civilians don't.  Amazing.  The beauty is, in the UK people can and do defend themselves all the time.  It's just we don't have to depend on firearms to do it.  It's that famous US cowardice again I guess.   Anyway, it's painfully clear that guns don't contribute to the safety of your country as your appalling levels of firearms deaths are uniquely bad.  But fine.  You're willing to pay with the lives of children in order to make yourself feel less scared of your own government.  OK.  

“34 US states have no smoke and fire regulation whatsoever.” False."  How far do you bend to avoid uncomfortable facts?  In your broken system, state legislature allows states to fill in the gaps of inefficient federal legislature - so how come so many states don't bother?  Look up Kidde dot com.  I know there are too many states for you to understand, but just to illustrate, tell me what sprinkler systems are required in Kansas or Alabama for all properties, federal legislation or state legislation.

“The NFPA state that in high-rise buildings... you just contradicted yourself."  Actually, my whole quote was "NFPA state that in high-rise buildings occupants MIGHT be instructed to stay where they are and await further instruction". Does that sound like a regulation to you?  'Might?'  It's not legislation, but it remains policy - an 'asinine' policy as you called it, before realising you have exactly the same!  Haha.  Oh wait, you do understand the difference between policy and legislation don't you?  Sorry, I sometimes make unfair assumptions about your education.

"The document mentions reasons they might be asked to stay" - yep, exactly the same as the Grenfell policy.  I thought you didn't want that?  Awkward.

"I asked someone for an example sign in the UK but nobody was willing"  So you seriously think I am willing to go to my nearest car park, photo the sign, upload it somewhere, and post that link here for you, only for you to squirm, deny it's representative, or just fail to reply like usual?  I know you struggle with using Google effectively, but just try this:  Think of a really clever set of keywords that would lead you to find a 'photo of a UK supermarket car park sign' (I gave you a little clue there!)  

I've already explained the system, it's really simple:  Go to private car park.  Read sign.  Sign tells you how and when to park, and the penalty for ignoring the sign.  Choose whether you still want to park there.  Ignore the sign, get the penalty.  

"Entitled to sue"?  That's cute.  In the UK, we are always entitled to sue.  There's never a guarantee of success, but using the civil courts isn't an 'entitlement'.  If the sign isn't there, isn't clear, is unreasonable, or unenforceable, you can take them to court.  

Sure, our police can get a car removed if it is dangerous - that WOULD be a safety issue.  Inconsiderate parking however is not and it's appalling that your armed police have to enforce that.  

"They do not have the same abilities as police officers.  They only have the right to write parking tickets."  I understand!!  That's brilliant!  You started off this thread complaining that in the UK, we have 'private citizens' (parking enforcement officers) that give out parking tickets instead of police.  Now you're explaining that in the USA, (as well as making armed police patrol parking regulations) you also have 'private citizens' (parking enforcement officers) that can give out parking tickets instead of police.  Hahahaha.  I love watching you tie yourself in knots.

“'Free at the point of delivery' So you’re changing your story to say that your healthcare is not free".  You really have basic issues with comprehension.  'Free at the point of delivery' is a description of how something is 'free'.  The clue is, it uses the word 'free'.  And yes, if you are on income support, home-based medicine, dental care, eyecare, food, water and shelter are also free.

In the USA, you are forced to pay for gingerbread house earthquake tests, and forced to pay for sugar you don't want, but you don't want to pay any extra to make sure every member of society can access cancer treatments?  Wow, just wow.

Look, I get it.  The NHS is the envy of the world, particularly of the USA, and despite countless attempts by your impotent government to achieve change, you still can't provide a basic minimum standard of care to all your citizens regardless of their income.  That's embarrassing, of course.  The Romans literally had a better system than yours.  But the key is to learn from the success of other countries instead of burying your head in the sand and pretending you're not failing.

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Guest: Free at last (76 days ago)

“'Free at the point of delivery' is a description of how something is 'free’.”  That’s just stupid.  If I pay for something off Amazon, I don’t have to pay anything extra when it arrives so it’s free at the point of delivery but clearly not free to purchase.  Try to understand that your healthcare is not free.  You pay for it regardless if you use it or not.

“you also have 'private citizens' “  Here’s the proof that you cannot read or cannot comprehend simple english.  What part of this sentence did you not understand: “Parking enforcement officers are local government employees.”?  They are not private citizens — they are government employees!  Duh

The rest of your comments are just as stupid as if you didn’t read my message like saying you know our constitution better than me and somehow think it’s a right for private citizens to detain and search people.  I’d like to see which paragraph in our constitution gives people that right.  I’m not going to give you any more of my time unless you ask me specific questions that you’d like answers to.  I might answer them, I might not.  Depends on how stupid they are.

Original comment

“'Free at the point of delivery' is a description of how something is 'free’.”  That’s just stupid.  If I pay for something off Amazon, I don’t have to pay anything extra when it arrives so it’s free at the point of delivery but clearly not free to purchase.  Try to understand that your healthcare is not free.  You pay for it regardless if you use it or not.

“you also have 'private citizens' “  Here’s the proof that you cannot read or cannot comprehend simple english.  What part of this sentence did you not understand: “Parking enforcement officers are local government employees.”?  They are not private citizens — they are government employees!  Duh

The rest of your comments are just as stupid as if you didn’t read my message like saying you know our constitution better than me and somehow think it’s a right for private citizens to detain and search people.  I’d like to see which paragraph in our constitution gives people that right.  I’m not going to give you any more of my time unless you ask me specific questions that you’d like answers to.  I might answer them, I might not.  Depends on how stupid they are.

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Guest: (76 days ago)

Free at the point delivery describes how something is free.  That's why the word free is in there.  With Amazon, you have already paid and demonstrated your ability to pay.  With the NHS, you don't have to.  You don't even need to demonstrate you're a taxpayer.  You started off this page saying the USA "gets free access to police and firefighters".  But you've changed your mind and now you're saying actually nothing is free if any tax goes towards it.  So by your new logic, you personally pay for gingerbread house earthquake testing?  Right?

"They are not private citizens — they are government employees!  Duh".  I read, and I understood that you were wrong yet again.  The first non-Wiki result on Google states that "In other (jurisdictions), parking enforcement workers are private employees who work for contracted security companies. Private industry parking enforcement positions are also available for large, privately owned properties that need parking enforcement services such as hospitals, sports arenas, and colleges and universities."  So back to square one, in the USA you have "private citizens write tickets" which you complained about.  Duh and double duh.

The Fourth Amendment relates to agents of the government.  It doesn't cover private security guards.  There's no part of the constitution that gives you the right to wipe your nose, but there's no part that forbids it, so you get to do it.  Next time you're pinned to the floor in Walmart for stealing duck feed, feel free to tell them they don't have the right to do that.  If possible, ask someone to film and you could even end up featured on Boreme.

Aww yes as usual you're bailing.  Such a clear pattern.  Just like you bailed on TheBob on the last thread.  Claim it's because my questions are stupid if it makes you feel better, but you've got me feeling very smug again, completely unable to respond to the very simple responses to your silly claims.  You really asked for it this time with such a list of nonsense, so easily debunked.  You ended up arguing with yourself.  

Original comment

Free at the point delivery describes how something is free.  That's why the word free is in there.  With Amazon, you have already paid and demonstrated your ability to pay.  With the NHS, you don't have to.  You don't even need to demonstrate you're a taxpayer.  You started off this page saying the USA "gets free access to police and firefighters".  But you've changed your mind and now you're saying actually nothing is free if any tax goes towards it.  So by your new logic, you personally pay for gingerbread house earthquake testing?  Right?

"They are not private citizens — they are government employees!  Duh".  I read, and I understood that you were wrong yet again.  The first non-Wiki result on Google states that "In other (jurisdictions), parking enforcement workers are private employees who work for contracted security companies. Private industry parking enforcement positions are also available for large, privately owned properties that need parking enforcement services such as hospitals, sports arenas, and colleges and universities."  So back to square one, in the USA you have "private citizens write tickets" which you complained about.  Duh and double duh.

The Fourth Amendment relates to agents of the government.  It doesn't cover private security guards.  There's no part of the constitution that gives you the right to wipe your nose, but there's no part that forbids it, so you get to do it.  Next time you're pinned to the floor in Walmart for stealing duck feed, feel free to tell them they don't have the right to do that.  If possible, ask someone to film and you could even end up featured on Boreme.

Aww yes as usual you're bailing.  Such a clear pattern.  Just like you bailed on TheBob on the last thread.  Claim it's because my questions are stupid if it makes you feel better, but you've got me feeling very smug again, completely unable to respond to the very simple responses to your silly claims.  You really asked for it this time with such a list of nonsense, so easily debunked.  You ended up arguing with yourself.  

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Guest: Doc Holiday (75 days ago)

"Free at the point delivery describes how something is free. "  Well, I don't believe paying for something before you need it to be free.  Our Medicare is not free, I've been paying for that all my working life.  Our Social Security system is not free, they take money out of every paycheck and my employer contributes as well.

"With the NHS, you don't have to" Really now.  Can you tell them to not take out those taxes from your paycheck so you can get more money?  Nope.

"you're saying actually nothing is free if any tax goes towards it." Close to what I'm saying.  There are some truly free things but healthcare in the UK is not one of them.  The police and fire are paid for by property owners.  People renting or people that don't own a home get those services for free.

"The first non-Wiki result on Google states that "In other (jurisdictions), parking enforcement workers are private employees who work for contracted security companies. " Oh dear god, you are stupid. You are cherry picking again.  Notice I selected California in my example.  Did you find an example of people in California that has the power to give parking tickets?   Also, did you see anything at all in any of those articles about the other jurisdictions where private citizens that do not work for the government are allowed to write enforceable parking tickets?  Like I stated earlier, owners of a property are allowed to tow your vehicle if it's parked there illegally.  They cannot issue tickets.  Of course there are private parking lots that you must pay to park there, that is not a ticket -- that is a fee for using their service.

" in the USA you have private citizens write tickets"  Still false.  No matter how many times you say it, that doesn't make it true.

"Walmart for stealing duck feed," Interesting you used my example.  Anyway, I said that Walmart security will stop you from stealing from them.  If you do, they will hold you until the police get there.  I also said that they better be right.  As a citizen, you have the right to sue if they detain you illegally.  Obviously if you were stealing something, they have the right to protect their property.  Just like if someone breaks into my house, I can protect myself and my property.  What is it about this scenario that you don't understand?

"Aww yes as usual you're bailing. " False again.  I did reply and I did say that I might reply.  You're wrong again.  I'm on Holiday now with friends so my time is very limited and I don't want to be bothered with people who cannot read or choose to ignore important points to support their agenda.

Original comment

"Free at the point delivery describes how something is free. "  Well, I don't believe paying for something before you need it to be free.  Our Medicare is not free, I've been paying for that all my working life.  Our Social Security system is not free, they take money out of every paycheck and my employer contributes as well.

"With the NHS, you don't have to" Really now.  Can you tell them to not take out those taxes from your paycheck so you can get more money?  Nope.

"you're saying actually nothing is free if any tax goes towards it." Close to what I'm saying.  There are some truly free things but healthcare in the UK is not one of them.  The police and fire are paid for by property owners.  People renting or people that don't own a home get those services for free.

"The first non-Wiki result on Google states that "In other (jurisdictions), parking enforcement workers are private employees who work for contracted security companies. " Oh dear god, you are stupid. You are cherry picking again.  Notice I selected California in my example.  Did you find an example of people in California that has the power to give parking tickets?   Also, did you see anything at all in any of those articles about the other jurisdictions where private citizens that do not work for the government are allowed to write enforceable parking tickets?  Like I stated earlier, owners of a property are allowed to tow your vehicle if it's parked there illegally.  They cannot issue tickets.  Of course there are private parking lots that you must pay to park there, that is not a ticket -- that is a fee for using their service.

" in the USA you have private citizens write tickets"  Still false.  No matter how many times you say it, that doesn't make it true.

"Walmart for stealing duck feed," Interesting you used my example.  Anyway, I said that Walmart security will stop you from stealing from them.  If you do, they will hold you until the police get there.  I also said that they better be right.  As a citizen, you have the right to sue if they detain you illegally.  Obviously if you were stealing something, they have the right to protect their property.  Just like if someone breaks into my house, I can protect myself and my property.  What is it about this scenario that you don't understand?

"Aww yes as usual you're bailing. " False again.  I did reply and I did say that I might reply.  You're wrong again.  I'm on Holiday now with friends so my time is very limited and I don't want to be bothered with people who cannot read or choose to ignore important points to support their agenda.

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Guest: (75 days ago)

Uh-oh, you're upset again.  You always call people stupid when you've failed to follow your own argument.  I realise you can read, and you clearly think that's important, but honestly your ability to logically follow a point, to rationally maintain a consistent position, and to comprehend subtle (and really obvious) concepts, isn't too hot.

"Well, I don't believe paying for something before you need it to be free".  Right.  So when you claimed the USA "gets free access to police and firefighters", you were wrong, because according to you if you own property, then you DO pay for it, AND before you need it.  I see.  

"People renting or people that don't own a home get [access to the police and FD] for free."  Seriously.  Do you believe that?  20 seconds on Google brings up examples where people have to pay a monthly fee for their fire service, or are charged after a call-out, and extreme cases where houses have been left to burn when people don't pay.  Wow, triple wow. 

"In the USA you have private citizens write tickets'  Still false".  Right so you're denying the existence of privately contracted parking enforcement officers who write tickets.  Amazing.  Seriously kid, Google it.  You might need to come up with your very own special definition of 'private' or 'citizen' or 'ticket' (like you had to do with 'government shutdown'), in order to feel you could have been right.  Over to you.

"You are cherry picking again".  Hah!  Cherry-picking would be selecting a single state like California to be representative (nice try).  My quote was broad and claimed "there are jurisdictions" - that is not cherry-picking, that's debunking your argument.  Let me help - you said the USA was UNlike the UK where "private citizens write tickets".  I don't have to prove that every state has some private parking enforcement (which it does); I only have to show that some do.  That's just logic.  So it turns out, in the awful UK, we have government parking enforcers (traffic wardens), and private parking enforcers.  Exactly the same as the USA, only we don't make armed police also do that job.  I love it when you criticise the UK before figuring out that you do it the same way!

Walmart.  "What is it about this scenario that you don't understand?".  Nothing.  I understand it better than you; private citizens working in Walmart have the legal right to detain you, to search you, and that the Fourth Amendment doesn't protect you from that.  Thank you.  So when you said "“where private citizens can stop and search you and detain you' False", you meant "Correct".  Fine.  I understand.

Call it what you want, but you're bailing.  As usual, you have cherry-picked just the comments you feel you can argue against (albeit badly), and now you'll use any excuse to get out of it... Maybe 'Your questions are too stupid to answer'... 'I'm way to busy with all my friends'... 'I'm super busy doing really important photocopying'.  Anyone that knows this site knows if there's one thing we can say for certain, it's that you have time on your hands.  Nothing wrong with that, but don't pull out the 'I'm too busy' card whenever the questions get too tricky.  Have a lovely 'holiday'.  :)
 

Original comment

Uh-oh, you're upset again.  You always call people stupid when you've failed to follow your own argument.  I realise you can read, and you clearly think that's important, but honestly your ability to logically follow a point, to rationally maintain a consistent position, and to comprehend subtle (and really obvious) concepts, isn't too hot.

"Well, I don't believe paying for something before you need it to be free".  Right.  So when you claimed the USA "gets free access to police and firefighters", you were wrong, because according to you if you own property, then you DO pay for it, AND before you need it.  I see.  

"People renting or people that don't own a home get [access to the police and FD] for free."  Seriously.  Do you believe that?  20 seconds on Google brings up examples where people have to pay a monthly fee for their fire service, or are charged after a call-out, and extreme cases where houses have been left to burn when people don't pay.  Wow, triple wow. 

"In the USA you have private citizens write tickets'  Still false".  Right so you're denying the existence of privately contracted parking enforcement officers who write tickets.  Amazing.  Seriously kid, Google it.  You might need to come up with your very own special definition of 'private' or 'citizen' or 'ticket' (like you had to do with 'government shutdown'), in order to feel you could have been right.  Over to you.

"You are cherry picking again".  Hah!  Cherry-picking would be selecting a single state like California to be representative (nice try).  My quote was broad and claimed "there are jurisdictions" - that is not cherry-picking, that's debunking your argument.  Let me help - you said the USA was UNlike the UK where "private citizens write tickets".  I don't have to prove that every state has some private parking enforcement (which it does); I only have to show that some do.  That's just logic.  So it turns out, in the awful UK, we have government parking enforcers (traffic wardens), and private parking enforcers.  Exactly the same as the USA, only we don't make armed police also do that job.  I love it when you criticise the UK before figuring out that you do it the same way!

Walmart.  "What is it about this scenario that you don't understand?".  Nothing.  I understand it better than you; private citizens working in Walmart have the legal right to detain you, to search you, and that the Fourth Amendment doesn't protect you from that.  Thank you.  So when you said "“where private citizens can stop and search you and detain you' False", you meant "Correct".  Fine.  I understand.

Call it what you want, but you're bailing.  As usual, you have cherry-picked just the comments you feel you can argue against (albeit badly), and now you'll use any excuse to get out of it... Maybe 'Your questions are too stupid to answer'... 'I'm way to busy with all my friends'... 'I'm super busy doing really important photocopying'.  Anyone that knows this site knows if there's one thing we can say for certain, it's that you have time on your hands.  Nothing wrong with that, but don't pull out the 'I'm too busy' card whenever the questions get too tricky.  Have a lovely 'holiday'.  :)
 

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